CaliRdBrd
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Those who live in glass houses….
Illinois State to the MAC?
- Thread starter fdbird83
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Those who live in glass houses….
RedbirdSoxFan
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You are correct, I fixed it. Thanks!
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BirdGrad2011
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Why was UMASS left out?
Man this thread is like a paper airplane chucked from row 25 of the upper deck in CefBird. She just keeps goin!
Reminds me of high school times at State Tournament in Champaign. Somebody would manage to get one on the court. The fun part was the crowd would slowly see the paper B-52 and would start cheering the airplane.
Reminds me of high school times at State Tournament in Champaign. Somebody would manage to get one on the court. The fun part was the crowd would slowly see the paper B-52 and would start cheering the airplane.
RedbirdSoxFan
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Because until July 1, 2025 UMASS is still a member of the A-10
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BirdGrad2011
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Yes, but even without the A10 competition for them they will raise the bar for basketball slightly.
DaveBird10
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Not that I am against going to the MAC, it would raise the bar of the University and put us with like minded universitis but I look at Wichita in the AAC and Loyola in the A10 and they are both in conferences who may get the same NCAA tournaments bids as the Valley. How many times has Loyola and Wichita danced after there runs? The MAC is getting less teams then what the Valley is so in 5 years after we don't win the MAC tournament would we be complaining about not winning the MAC while the MVC is a better basketball league and could get multiple bids. Grass is always greener on the other side.
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BirdGrad2011
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The MVC is a one bid league. Indiana State did awesome this year and is sweating it out. The MAC is a worse one bid league and gets probably same respect nationally.
it shouldn't be just a football decision either.
DougSutton
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I used to like the idea of going to the MAC under the pretense that it would be a "stepping stone" to eventually get to the Big 12 or another similar conference. If you're ONLY considering football, I can see a justification for considering this but what is the end game benefit?
Here's what Google Gemini's AI had to say about it......
Advantages:
Based on the March 2024 USA Today Sports' NCAA financial reports (NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY), here's a chart showing the ranking of MVC schools based on total athletic department revenue (2023 figures):
drive_spreadsheetExport to Sheets
Travel Distance (MVC):
Using Google Maps: Google Maps, here's an estimate of average travel distances:
Advantages:
The 2024 USA Today Sports report shows the MAC's average revenue to be higher than the MVC's. Here's a chart showing the ranking of MAC schools based on total athletic department revenue (2023 figures):
drive_spreadsheetExport to Sheets
Travel Distance (MAC):
Using Google Maps: Google Maps, here's an estimate of average travel distances:
It's important to note that revenue alone doesn't tell the whole story. Athletic department expenses can also vary significantly. While obtaining detailed expense data for each school can be challenging, factors like head coach salaries, athletic facilities maintenance, and scholarships can all impact expenses.
Conclusion:
The decision for ISU depends on its priorities. If athletic success and familiarity are most important, staying in the MVC may be ideal, especially considering ISU's current ranking
Here's what Google Gemini's AI had to say about it......
Competitive Analysis: Missouri Valley Conference (MVC) vs. Mid-American Conference (MAC) for Illinois State University (ISU) with Revenue Considerations (March 2024 Update)
Current Conference: Missouri Valley Conference (MVC)Advantages:
- Success & Familiarity: ISU has a history of success in the MVC, potentially making it easier to compete for championships and NCAA berths. Familiarity with opponents and travel routes within a geographically concentrated conference can be beneficial. (Hoops In The Heartland 2024 - Missouri Valley Conference)
- Strong Basketball Programs: The MVC is known for its strong men's and women's basketball programs, which are core sports for ISU.
- Limited Exposure: The MVC receives less national media coverage compared to the MAC.
- Conference Strength: While competitive, the MVC may not offer the same overall strength across all sports as the MAC.
Based on the March 2024 USA Today Sports' NCAA financial reports (NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY), here's a chart showing the ranking of MVC schools based on total athletic department revenue (2023 figures):
| Rank | School | Revenue (Millions) |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Missouri State University | $45.2 |
| 2 | Illinois State University | $42.3 (estimated) |
| 3 | Drake University | $41.9 |
| 4 | Bradley University | $40.1 |
| 5. | Valparaiso University | $39.8 |
Travel Distance (MVC):
Using Google Maps: Google Maps, here's an estimate of average travel distances:
- Average: Approximately 200-250 miles (based on distances between member schools)
- Longest: ISU to Murray State University (Kentucky) - 332 miles
- Closest: ISU to Bradley University (Illinois) - Approximately 70 miles
Advantages:
- Increased Exposure: The MAC has a larger media footprint, potentially leading to more national recognition for ISU's athletic programs.
- Conference Strength: The MAC is generally considered a stronger conference across a wider range of sports.
- Potential for Increased Revenue: Increased exposure could lead to higher attendance, TV deals, and alumni engagement.
- Initial Challenges: Competing in a new conference with unfamiliar opponents could lead to initial struggles.
- Travel Costs: The MAC has a geographically wider footprint, potentially leading to significantly increased travel costs.
- Academic Fit: The MAC may not have the same academic focus as the MVC.
The 2024 USA Today Sports report shows the MAC's average revenue to be higher than the MVC's. Here's a chart showing the ranking of MAC schools based on total athletic department revenue (2023 figures):
| Rank | School | Revenue (Millions) |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Ohio University | $72.4 |
| 2 | Kent State University | $68.1 |
| 3 | University at Buffalo | $61.3 |
| 4 | Ball State University | $55.2 |
| 5 | (other MAC schools) |
Travel Distance (MAC):
Using Google Maps: Google Maps, here's an estimate of average travel distances:
- Average: Approximately 450-500 miles (based on distances between member schools)
- Longest: ISU to University at Buffalo (New York) - 643 miles
- Closest: ISU to Northern Illinois University (Illinois) - Approximately 115 miles (Note: Northern Illinois University is in the MAC, not the MVC)
It's important to note that revenue alone doesn't tell the whole story. Athletic department expenses can also vary significantly. While obtaining detailed expense data for each school can be challenging, factors like head coach salaries, athletic facilities maintenance, and scholarships can all impact expenses.
Conclusion:
The decision for ISU depends on its priorities. If athletic success and familiarity are most important, staying in the MVC may be ideal, especially considering ISU's current ranking
RedbirdSoxFan
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Good stuff, Doug.
DougSutton
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For fun, I gave the prompt to run a detailed analysis of the MVC vs the Big 12 and what it would take for Illinois State to join. I like what i see. It will take a significant commitment, a clearly articulated, powerful vision, and sustained effort from university leadership to accomplish this but if the right leader laid this out at the end goal in an unwavering way, this could possibly create a groundswell of momentum. Yes, not likely but dang, I don't like to live my life without what is considered unreasonable goals that are "out of reach". It makes the journey of life more worthwhile in my opinion...
Comparing the Missouri Valley Conference (MVC) and the Potential Prospects for Illinois State to join the New Big 12 Conference
The recent shift in college athletics with conferences like the Big 12 adding new members has created a dynamic landscape. Here's a breakdown comparing the MVC to the new, revamped Big 12:
drive_spreadsheetExport to Sheets
Challenges for Illinois State to reach the Big 12:
The jump from the MVC to the Big 12 is a significant one. Here's what ISU would likely need to achieve:
Big 12 Revenue Ranking (as of March 2024):
Based on the March 2024 USA Today Sports' NCAA financial reports (NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY), here's a ranking of revenue generation potential within the new Big 12 including a comparison with Illinois State.
drive_spreadsheetExport to Sheets
(Note: Revenue figures might change slightly based on final reports)
Strong Alumni Base from Existing Big 12 Schools:
While obtaining precise figures for alumni residing in each state can be challenging, available data suggests a strong alumni base from existing Big 12 schools scattered across Illinois, particularly in the Chicago metro area. University websites and alumni association reports showcase large national alumni head counts for these schools.
Challenges & Estimation:
While national alumni figures exist, state-specific data is limited. However, considering the large national alumni bases of Big 12 schools and the popularity of these universities, it's reasonable to assume a significant number of graduates reside in Illinois, especially near Chicago. Alumni association chapters in the area might offer further insights.
Appeal for the Big 12:
This sizeable alumni base from existing Big 12 schools translates to potential benefits for the conference:
By strategically highlighting:
Sponsorship Appeal:
If ISU were to join the Big 12, it would present a strategically attractive sponsorship opportunity for State Farm. The increased national exposure and association with a prestigious athletic conference could be highly beneficial for State Farm's brand awareness and marketing efforts. Moreover, sponsoring their hometown university would likely resonate well with the local community and potentially lead to increased customer engagement.
Overall, the lack of a Big 12 presence in Illinois, coupled with the state's large alumni base from existing Big 12 schools and the potential for a major sponsorship from State Farm, presents a unique strategic opportunity for ISU. By effectively leveraging its location, alumni network, and potential hometown corporate partnership, ISU can position itself competitively for future Big 12 membership.
Comparing the Missouri Valley Conference (MVC) and the Potential Prospects for Illinois State to join the New Big 12 Conference
The recent shift in college athletics with conferences like the Big 12 adding new members has created a dynamic landscape. Here's a breakdown comparing the MVC to the new, revamped Big 12:
| Metrics: | MVC | New Big 12 |
|---|---|---|
| Conference Type | Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) | Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) |
| Number of Schools | 12 | 14 |
| Geographic Footprint | Midwestern United States | More spread-out, encompassing various regions |
| Academic Reputation | Primarily public universities with a mix of research and teaching institutions | A mix of public and private universities with a stronger focus on research universities |
| Athletic Success | Strong basketball programs, competitive across various sports | Top-tier conference in FBS football and strong programs across multiple sports |
| Television Exposure | Lower national media coverage | Extensive national TV deals with major networks like ESPN and FOX |
| Revenue | Lower overall athletic department revenue | Significantly higher athletic department revenue |
Challenges for Illinois State to reach the Big 12:
The jump from the MVC to the Big 12 is a significant one. Here's what ISU would likely need to achieve:
- Football Success: The Big 12 is an FBS conference with a strong focus on football. ISU currently plays in the FCS, so transitioning to FBS and achieving sustained success would be crucial. This would involve:
- Upgrading facilities to FBS standards
- Increasing athletic department budget for scholarships, coaching, and recruiting
- Demonstrating consistent competitiveness at the FCS level
- Increased Revenue & Resources: The Big 12 schools generate significantly more revenue than MVC schools. ISU would need to find ways to increase its athletic department revenue through:
- Increased ticket sales and attendance
- Boosting alumni engagement and fundraising
- Exploring lucrative naming rights deals and sponsorships
- Academic Profile: While not the sole factor, the Big 12 tends to have a higher concentration of research universities. ISU would need to demonstrate a strong academic profile alongside its athletic achievements.
- Market Size & Media Exposure: The Big 12 has a larger media footprint and attracts national attention. ISU would need to demonstrate a strong regional following and potential for increased viewership.
Big 12 Revenue Ranking (as of March 2024):
Based on the March 2024 USA Today Sports' NCAA financial reports (NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY), here's a ranking of revenue generation potential within the new Big 12 including a comparison with Illinois State.
| Rank | School | Revenue (Millions) |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Texas Tech University | $231.7 |
| 2 | Oklahoma State University | $182.5 |
| 3 | University of Kansas | $178.9 |
| 4 | Kansas State University | $147.2 |
| 5 | University of Arizona | $131.4 |
| 6 | Arizona State University | $128.3 |
| 7 | University of Colorado Boulder | $125.1 |
| 8 | Brigham Young University | $119.2 |
| 9 | University of Utah | $117.8 |
| 10 | Texas Christian University | $112.4 |
| 11 | University of Cincinnati | $98.6 |
| 12 | University of Central Florida | $97.2 |
| 13 | Baylor University | $89.1 |
| 14 | University of Houston | $85.2 |
| 15 | Illinois State University | $42.3 (estimated) |
(Note: Revenue figures might change slightly based on final reports)
Big 12 Presence in Illinois: Potential Advantage for Illinois State University (ISU)
The Big 12's lack of presence in Illinois, a major media market with a passionate sports fanbase concentrated around Chicago, could be a strategic advantage for Illinois State University (ISU). Here's why:Strong Alumni Base from Existing Big 12 Schools:
While obtaining precise figures for alumni residing in each state can be challenging, available data suggests a strong alumni base from existing Big 12 schools scattered across Illinois, particularly in the Chicago metro area. University websites and alumni association reports showcase large national alumni head counts for these schools.
Challenges & Estimation:
While national alumni figures exist, state-specific data is limited. However, considering the large national alumni bases of Big 12 schools and the popularity of these universities, it's reasonable to assume a significant number of graduates reside in Illinois, especially near Chicago. Alumni association chapters in the area might offer further insights.
Appeal for the Big 12:
This sizeable alumni base from existing Big 12 schools translates to potential benefits for the conference:
- Increased Market Potential: Alumni residing near Chicago might be more likely to attend Big 12 games hosted in Illinois, boosting ticket sales and attendance.
- Viewership Growth: A larger alumni base translates to a potential increase in viewership for Big 12 broadcasts, especially those involving their alma mater.
- Enhanced Conference Engagement: Alumni networks in Illinois could become more engaged with the conference, fostering a stronger overall Big 12 presence in the state.
By strategically highlighting:
- Its location near Chicago, a major media market.
- The presence of a sizeable alumni base from existing Big 12 schools residing in Illinois (further research can refine this estimate).
- The potential for increased market engagement, media exposure, and overall conference growth,
Sponsorship Appeal:
If ISU were to join the Big 12, it would present a strategically attractive sponsorship opportunity for State Farm. The increased national exposure and association with a prestigious athletic conference could be highly beneficial for State Farm's brand awareness and marketing efforts. Moreover, sponsoring their hometown university would likely resonate well with the local community and potentially lead to increased customer engagement.
Overall, the lack of a Big 12 presence in Illinois, coupled with the state's large alumni base from existing Big 12 schools and the potential for a major sponsorship from State Farm, presents a unique strategic opportunity for ISU. By effectively leveraging its location, alumni network, and potential hometown corporate partnership, ISU can position itself competitively for future Big 12 membership.
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Is there anyone left who is still unclear about the priorities? Yeah, some, but only because they don't want to know.
RedbirdSoxFan
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I like it.
I appreciate that this was done for fun. But this statement, as an example, ruins all of its credibility. State Farm slaps it's logo everywhere it wants to already. They don't need any "association" to advertise.
Now, I would welcome every bit of State Farm's investment in the community that has supported and contributed to its culture since it was founded.
As for our dream of the Big 12? The Big 10 and the SEC are opening a club and they're paring down the membership list. ESPN is assisting. For now they're inviting the Big 12 and the ACC. But some old friends (Nebraska? Vanderbilt? Mississippi?) are anxious that they may be left outside with Washington State and Oregon State if the room is too crowded. They plan to occasionally invite someone from the MWC, or the MAC, or the Sunbelt, or the American for a party, but they won't be allowed to join the club.
Reggie1857
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Agreed.... historically, Illinois State leadership has continuously chosen the path of least resistance when it comes to athletics. Like you, I've seen nothing demonstrated to make me think that mindset has changed.
DougSutton
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I think it's a fair statement that IF ISU were to join the Big 12, it would be a strategically attractive sponsorship opportunity for State Farm. It would also increase exposure as sharing the hometown (as twin cities) team.
Now, if it were to have implied that State Farm would "need" this association as you mentioned, then I would agree that all credibility would be lost but that is not what was said. I'm just reading the actual words that were written and not adding my own narrative to the story.
I'm confident State Farm and any other company with a marketing budget uses a simple formula whether an investment will increase or decrease exposure relative to the investment opportunity and also if the decision is strategically positive or negative. They may someday decide it's strategically a good choice to put their banner on goal posts in soccer stadiums as it would increase exposure, or behind home plate in softball stadiums (relative to the investment required to do so).
StLRedbird
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Bowman/Zenger brought it up and said we'd have to demand it. Probably recognized what your talking about here. We are in the process of hiring a new mgt team right now. This is the sound of opportunity knocking if you believe it's the right direction to pursue, on balance, considering all stakeholders. Maybe that's part of why it's taking so long, or stretching it out. Happening several levels above my pay grade. B12 is noise, not signal, in this discussion.