Howard Fleming Jr

[TIMMY]

"Mid-majors" need to change the way they do business. Bringing in freshmen, wasting time and money to develop them, and poof they're gone. OK, that's the rule. Maybe it's fair that kids can move like coaches. But schools like ISU can't keep this up. Watch what happens with the Simpkins kids if they even show up. 2 years and they'll be gone. Go find transfers with an upside. Kids who didn't see the floor enough with the big boys. Coach them up and hope they gel. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

 

[BirdsEyeView]

"Mid-majors" need to change the way they do business. Bringing in freshmen, wasting time and money to develop them, and poof they're gone. OK, that's the rule. Maybe it's fair that kids can move like coaches. But schools like ISU can't keep this up. Watch what happens with the Simpkins kids if they even show up. 2 years and they'll be gone. Go find transfers with an upside. Kids who didn't see the floor enough with the big boys. Coach them up and hope they gel. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

100% agree on this approach and also find a way to create NIL opportunities (partner with area businesses, for ex) for kids to perceive Illinois State as more attracting of an option

 

[isuquinndog]

And that approach is what is turning me off to college athletics. I don't disagree it's the way you have to do things now. But I don't have to like it.

 

[DaveBird10]

Best of luck to Howard, he was probably my favorite Redbird and a guy I hoped we could build around. Purchased his sweatshirt and will always cheer for him wherever he lands.

Birds got some openings at the wings for some of these transfers to come in and produce, hopefully Pedon and co. can land a few.

 

[DBird]

"Mid-majors" need to change the way they do business. Bringing in freshmen, wasting time and money to develop them, and poof they're gone. OK, that's the rule. Maybe it's fair that kids can move like coaches. But schools like ISU can't keep this up. Watch what happens with the Simpkins kids if they even show up. 2 years and they'll be gone. Go find transfers with an upside. Kids who didn't see the floor enough with the big boys. Coach them up and hope they gel. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

Call me old school but very sad now days. Makes me dislike college sports more and more.
Just one XC/Track coaches opinion!

 

[DBird]

And that approach is what is turning me off to college athletics. I don't disagree it's the way you have to do things now. But I don't have to like it.

Agree 100%

 

[Adunk33]

"Mid-majors" need to change the way they do business. Bringing in freshmen, wasting time and money to develop them, and poof they're gone. OK, that's the rule. Maybe it's fair that kids can move like coaches. But schools like ISU can't keep this up. Watch what happens with the Simpkins kids if they even show up. 2 years and they'll be gone. Go find transfers with an upside. Kids who didn't see the floor enough with the big boys. Coach them up and hope they gel. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

Changing the way things are done is probably the easiest route. For people that don't like what is becoming of college sports (free agency, NIL, etc.) there is a glimmer of hope. A program can strive to be like Loyola or UNI. I know it's over used and I've said it before, but building a culture that players want to be in and stay in is challenging, but possible. UNI rarely has transfers out. The best Loyola teams were built with guys in the program for 3-4 years. I can be done, but its hard work.

 

[SgtHulka]

Changing the way things are done is probably the easiest route. For people that don't like what is becoming of college sports (free agency, NIL, etc.) there is a glimmer of hope. A program can strive to be like Loyola or UNI. I know it's over used and I've said it before, but building a culture that players want to be in and stay in is challenging, but possible. UNI rarely has transfers out. The best Loyola teams were built with guys in the program for 3-4 years. I can be done, but its hard work.

1-2 transfers out per year max. As long as a player is waiting in the wings to increase his role you can survive. If the Muller Churn continues we will continue to struggle unless you can strike portal gold or silver year to year.

I'm in the losing interest in D1 college ball camp too. I'm not out, but not a fan of this direction. Maybe once the covid years are used up, maybe it settles down

 

[DWRedbird]

1-2 transfers out per year max. As long as a player is waiting in the wings to increase his role you can survive. If the Muller Churn continues we will continue to struggle unless you can strike portal gold or silver year to year.

I'm in the losing interest in D1 college ball camp too. I'm not out, but not a fan of this direction. Maybe once the covid years are used up, maybe it settle down

While I think we'll see less transfers when COVID years are done, I think it is still going to be pretty popular. A lot of kids come to a university not for the university itself, but for the coach and with coaching changes being more and more rampant/domino like effect, I think we'll continue to see high number of transfers.

 

[DBird]

Changing the way things are done is probably the easiest route. For people that don't like what is becoming of college sports (free agency, NIL, etc.) there is a glimmer of hope. A program can strive to be like Loyola or UNI. I know it's over used and I've said it before, but building a culture that players want to be in and stay in is challenging, but possible. UNI rarely has transfers out. The best Loyola teams were built with guys in the program for 3-4 years. I can be done, but its hard work.

Maybe they can hold on we shall see but them being able to do that was mostly before the NIL and Transfer stuff.

 

[BTbird]

As a fan, I can't stand the transfer situation in College basketball. Hoping Pedon is better at building relationships with players so we can at least have a transfer rate no bigger than other valley teams.

 

[Yogi]

I have seen a group of worse talent evaluation The last 15 years of the st louis rams thanks Stan you royal ass

 

[Denali2x]

And that approach is what is turning me off to college athletics. I don't disagree it's the way you have to do things now. But I don't have to like it.

Totally agree ... college basketball in general looks to maybe be becoming a whole lot less interesting in the times ahead .... a real loss in my opinion.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Howard Fleming will enter the transfer portal

Curious how many that enter the portal actually stay?

 

[CaliRdBrd]

“Smoother”. Muller’s first year was hardly smooth - remember the 0-6 start to conference - but it could have been a dumpster fire had Jackie/Tyler left. Instead they came back to where they’d have broken even in conference if not for the drop kick. They played on Saturday in STL.

This team with all but Reeves returning - plus select Pedon additions - had a chance to match the ‘12-‘13 team’s performance.

I look forward to seeing who Pedon adds, but ideally he would have been building with a talented group with a positive culture already on hand - even if they weren’t Valley first-teamers.

I would have liked for Fleming to stay, but youre not seriously comparing his potential departure to Brown and Carmichael leaving, are you?

Also, it’s a bit early to determine how positive the new culture will be. I like the hire and clearly Pedon wants his own fingerprints on this team; which means hard choices for some of those not buying into his “culture”. If so, best for them to leave.
I will say, I know nothing about this situation, but I’m 100% Pedon and whatever he is doing to get us back to being relevant.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Best of luck to Howard. He was a fine ambassador for the program and school and he was one I would have liked to see stay. That being said, I'm perfectly fine with the scholarship being open and allowing Pedon and staff one more spot to find kids who fit what they are trying to build.

"Mid-majors" need to change the way they do business. Bringing in freshmen, wasting time and money to develop them, and poof they're gone. OK, that's the rule. Maybe it's fair that kids can move like coaches. But schools like ISU can't keep this up. Watch what happens with the Simpkins kids if they even show up. 2 years and they'll be gone. Go find transfers with an upside. Kids who didn't see the floor enough with the big boys. Coach them up and hope they gel. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

100% agree, but the Simpkins love-fest reminds me of the Kaza Keane love-fest.
I can’t find any decent programs interested in these kids.
What am I missing??

 

[BirdGrad2011]

100% agree, but the Simpkins love-fest reminds me of the Kaza Keane love-fest.
I can’t find any decent programs interested in these kids.
What am I missing??

Where have you seen a Simpkins love-fest? Everyone hear is hopeful but wondering how good they actually are…

 

[Total Red]

Never have seen a bigger group of awful talent evaluators. Fleming is one that I would have liked to stay but give it up folks.

When evaluating a player keep in mind that you can be looking at a moving target. Fleming in his first year here? Not very good. His second year was noticeably better as he was finding his jump shot. It's hard to know what years 3, 4 or 5 would bring but I think he's going to be a good guard for somebody. It was the same with Paris Lee. We remember how good he was as a senior and tend to forget that he wasn't nearly as good a Fr. and Soph.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Where have you seen a Simpkins love-fest? Everyone hear is hopeful but wondering how good they actually are…

Semantics.
Maybe not a “love-fest”, but seemingly a lot of excitement over a couple of prospects that not many other programs seem to be going after.

Look, I hope they succeed, but I’m stymied as to why there is so little info on them, specifically who else was recruiting them. I can’t come up with anyone.

Seems like cause for concern?

 

[DaveBird10]

Semantics.
Maybe not a “love-fest”, but seemingly a lot of excitement over a couple of prospects that not many other programs seem to be going after.

Look, I hope they succeed, but I’m stymied as to why there is so little info on them, specifically who else was recruiting them. I can’t come up with anyone.

Seems like cause for concern?

My thought is in a world of covid where every player gets 5yrs and scholarships are tight, teams probably can't afford to give up 2 scholarships to 2 guys, specifically if 1 is clearly better then the other. I am confused as to why there is nothing on them as well.