HCDM Accountability?

[jamminjamarsmiley]

Serious post here. The team has fallen short of expectations - Even HCDM predicted an MVC title and was extremely confident in that sentiment in the pre-season. Yes, they could salvage this in St. Louis - or they fold like they did recently against Valpo and UNI. Here is my question, is anyone concerned about the apparent lack of accountability Dan takes when the team loses? From my observations, it seems like his post game comments are mainly directed at individuals who under-performed.

Many of his comments are on WJBC post-game, thus I cannot include them in the post - but quite frequently he will say (summarizing) - Player A was horrible, or Player B had no effort/energy, or Player C didn't play defense. Certainly, I can respect a guy for being honest... however I am concerned Dan has created a culture where its Coaches V. Players - seems as if this is a trend... Tyler Brown, Hawkins, Lofton, Yarbrough, even the great P Lee debated a transfer due to his issues with Dan. I am not supportive of publicly taking these shots at the guys. I believe the players hear this stuff... Yeah, call them soft, or they need to toughen up ... However - I follow college basketball quite heavily and don't see many coaches publicly saying these sorts of things.

To Dan's credit, he will normally throw in a statement about how he was out-coached, or he didn't have them ready to play... But he will elaborate quite a bit about specific individuals who are to blame.

I know there is an on-going fued on this board between Dan supporters and non-supporters, but am I the only one who notices this, or has this sort of feeling after listening to Dan in the postgame? Love to hear your thoughts.

 

[gobirds85]

Serious post here. The team has fallen short of expectations - Even HCDM predicted an MVC title and was extremely confident in that sentiment in the pre-season. Yes, they could salvage this in St. Louis - or they fold like they did recently against Valpo and UNI. Here is my question, is anyone concerned about the apparent lack of accountability Dan takes when the team loses? From my observations, it seems like his post game comments are mainly directed at individuals who under-performed.

Many of his comments are on WJBC post-game, thus I cannot include them in the post - but quite frequently he will say (summarizing) - Player A was horrible, or Player B had no effort/energy, or Player C didn't play defense. Certainly, I can respect a guy for being honest... however I am concerned Dan has created a culture where its Coaches V. Players - seems as if this is a trend... Tyler Brown, Hawkins, Lofton, Yarbrough, even the great P Lee debated a transfer due to his issues with Dan. I am not supportive of publicly taking these shots at the guys. I believe the players hear this stuff... Yeah, call them soft, or they need to toughen up ... However - I follow college basketball quite heavily and don't see many coaches publicly saying these sorts of things.

To Dan's credit, he will normally throw in a statement about how he was out-coached, or he didn't have them ready to play... But he will elaborate quite a bit about specific individuals who are to blame.

I know there is an on-going fued on this board between Dan supporters and non-supporters, but am I the only one who notices this, or has this sort of feeling after listening to Dan in the postgame? Love to hear your thoughts.

I find his penchant for throwing the team under the bus troubling. Maybe something better said in private in the locker room. His bullsh*t comment about not coaching effort the other day was an indictment of his coaching or lack of coaching ability.

I’ve said it before...no tourney, no Dan. However, the $$$ involved will dictate what happens. And I don’t think a lot of us will be happy.

 

[Chi-bird]

I have no issues with his criticisms and I have no issues with his compliments.

I find it refreshing.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

Serious post here. The team has fallen short of expectations - Even HCDM predicted an MVC title and was extremely confident in that sentiment in the pre-season. Yes, they could salvage this in St. Louis - or they fold like they did recently against Valpo and UNI. Here is my question, is anyone concerned about the apparent lack of accountability Dan takes when the team loses? From my observations, it seems like his post game comments are mainly directed at individuals who under-performed.

Many of his comments are on WJBC post-game, thus I cannot include them in the post - but quite frequently he will say (summarizing) - Player A was horrible, or Player B had no effort/energy, or Player C didn't play defense. Certainly, I can respect a guy for being honest... however I am concerned Dan has created a culture where its Coaches V. Players - seems as if this is a trend... Tyler Brown, Hawkins, Lofton, Yarbrough, even the great P Lee debated a transfer due to his issues with Dan. I am not supportive of publicly taking these shots at the guys. I believe the players hear this stuff... Yeah, call them soft, or they need to toughen up ... However - I follow college basketball quite heavily and don't see many coaches publicly saying these sorts of things.

To Dan's credit, he will normally throw in a statement about how he was out-coached, or he didn't have them ready to play... But he will elaborate quite a bit about specific individuals who are to blame.

I know there is an on-going fued on this board between Dan supporters and non-supporters, but am I the only one who notices this, or has this sort of feeling after listening to Dan in the postgame? Love to hear your thoughts.

The post game shows I have listened to very rarely mention individuals names, nor demeans them. Usually he puts the blame on himself for not having the team mentally prepared.

 

[topiarydan]

Drives me nuts how he stands on the sideline with his arms folded half of the time. GET INTO THE F'ING GAME. Heck get a technical every game if you have to. Why we don't at least pass the ball around the horn at least once each time boggles my mind - I've never seen an Offense that relies so much on chucking 3s with NO ONE under the boards or in the paint amazes me

 

[Hamdonger]

I have no issues with his criticisms and I have no issues with his compliments.

I find it refreshing.

Dingdingdingdingding...DINGDING.
(as it relates to postgame show and public comments from Coach his players and himself)

 

[HailISNU]

When your team is doing poorly it's only human nature to try to uncover why, and this is generally the kind of stuff people land on. Postgame comments, sideline demeanor, etc. None of it would be mentioned if the team was doing well and none of it is the actual root of the issue.

 

[Hamdonger]

Drives me nuts how he stands on the sideline with his arms folded half of the time. GET INTO THE F'ING GAME.

Know what drives me nuts about the f'ing game?? Coaches who OVERfREAKIN'COACH from the sideline...at any level. Blowing gaskets every two seconds. Yelling yelling yelling yelling yelling. Who the heck can hear you when the crowd is engaged??? Makes em look like absolute fools, when in reality it's a whole lot of window dressing cause they somehow have convinced themselves they have to look and act that way to be a coach. And I love coaches and the biz and everything about it. Been one myself. PRACTICE is for the most intense coaching (sorry Ai) Gameday is the test. Drives me NUTS when fans, even educated ones, don't see a coach doing jumping jacks on the sideline 90% of the time and they think he/she is a shtty coach based on those optics. There are times for it, OF COURSE there are. Just not all the dang time.

I've seen Dan get plenty engaged over 7 yrs, and certainly this year as well. In saying that, yes Dan IS accountable and he gets a C so far from me this year. Ha, like it matters. My 2 cents which isn't even worth 2 cents.

 

[Redbirdfan06]

I have no issues with his criticisms and I have no issues with his compliments.

I find it refreshing.

I don’t. Especially when this team that he has put together shows no toughness, leadership , or discipline. It’s alarming when a coach has to repeatedly do this after each loss. I don’t know how the coach lacks accountability for these repeated mistakes. This team has shown no growth since last season. We can continue to point the fingers at players and lack of effort or leadership but maybe it’s time the coach held himself a little accountable.

Maybe that’s why this team is the way it is. There Is no accountability from the top down. Obviously continuing to act like the coaches knew everything an opposing team was going to do and our team just didn’t execute is working wonders for us in the postgame interviews. If this team is such a mess that they can’t take any of the coaching, then how can we continue to feel sorry for the coach and the team he assembled.

 

[Hamdonger]

When your team is doing poorly it's only human nature to try to uncover why, and this is generally the kind of stuff people land on. Postgame comments, sideline demeanor, etc. None of it would be mentioned if the team was doing well and none of it is the actual root of the issue.

The most level-headed and sane post I've seen in many many moons. Very well stated. Good gravy even elegant. "There's no elegance! There's no elegance in redbirdfan.net!"

 

[Redbirdfan06]

Drives me nuts how he stands on the sideline with his arms folded half of the time. GET INTO THE F'ING GAME.

Know what drives me nuts about the f'ing game?? Coaches who OVERfREAKIN'COACH from the sideline...at any level. Blowing gaskets every two seconds. Yelling yelling yelling yelling yelling. Who the heck can hear you when the crowd is engaged??? Makes em look like absolute fools, when in reality it's a whole lot of window dressing cause they somehow have convinced themselves they have to look and act that way to be a coach. And I love coaches and the biz and everything about it. Been one myself. PRACTICE is for the most intense coaching (sorry Ai) Gameday is the test. Drives me NUTS when fans, even educated ones, don't see a coach doing jumping jacks on the sideline 90% of the time and they think he/she is a shtty coach based on those optics. There are times for it, OF COURSE there are. Just not all the dang time.

I've seen Dan get plenty engaged over 7 yrs, and certainly this year as well. In saying that, yes Dan IS accountable and he gets a C so far from me this year. Ha, like it matters. My 2 cents which isn't even worth 2 cents.

Boy, if you think he gets a C so far this year(and I know that only your opinion) then this guy should have landed a promotion to a bigger conference after the 2017 season because that should have been an A+. Because I currently see a coach that is trending downward. Unless I am looking at this wrong and other schools AD’s think he recruited an uncoachable group and he could thrive with better resources and exposure.

Or, we put too much stock into the 2017 mvc regular season and we don’t look into the fact this team didn’t overwhelme in the nonconference and lost by a combined 60 points the last two times we played Wichita State.

I hope we turn things around and win in St. Louis. But I feel a C grade is pretty generous to coach at this point.

 

[Birdswin]

I agree with jammin. This is FAR to common. Not only on the post-game, but the quotes in the Pantagraph where he is publicly criticizing the players - that is worse than fans booing. That is by far the number one most alums I know who know refuse to go to games is because of Muller's comments about players - when what he is saying is that he is not doing his job as a coach.

 

[stats]

Many of his comments are on WJBC post-game, thus I cannot include them in the post - but quite frequently he will say (summarizing) - Player A was horrible, or Player B had no effort/energy, or Player C didn't play defense. Certainly, I can respect a guy for being honest... however I am concerned Dan has created a culture where its Coaches V. Players - seems as if this is a trend... Tyler Brown, Hawkins, Lofton, Yarbrough, even the great P Lee debated a transfer due to his issues with Dan. I am not supportive of publicly taking these shots at the guys.

If taking these shots helped them play better, that is one thing....but it is not. If it is just this group, I get it.....but it's not. You could go back to Wilkins, Ekey, Hill, Bobby Hunter, Trehloff and more that were pretty good representatives of the basketball program that were made to look like they don't care. Osiris made plenty of bonehead plays and bad outings that would ISU a game, but he had plenty more good ones. And we remember that. What remember about most of our players over the last 7 years is sitting on the bench, transferring or some kind of controversy. It is a trend.

It bothers me to hear a coach say he can't coach effort. Besides getting wins, coaches are paid to motivate, inspire, do whatever it takes to get the best effort out of your team. Players always try, but the coach has to find a way to get them to perform at the highest level.

Senior leadership has been so overused this year, that is what drives me nuts. Mulller took over a team that made it to the second round of the NIT without any seniors on the team. You don't have to have seniors to have leaders. Michigan won a national title without any seniors, juniors or sophomores starting. It is the coaches responsibility to recognize if he has senior leaders or not. Seniors probably cannot be leaders if they are too nice to let their teammates know when they need to work harder. I think we have a couple of those guys. If a senior is constantly being benched, he cannot be a leader either. The rest of the team is smart enough to figure that out. To have a true leader, there needs to be constant communication between a coach and the player expected to lead (often behind closed doors). I'm not sure we ever have had that....except for Paris.

 

[Hamdonger]

Boy, if you think he gets a C so far this year(and I know that only your opinion) then this guy should have landed a promotion to a bigger conference after the 2017 season because that should have been an A+. Because I currently see a coach that is trending downward. Unless I am looking at this wrong and other schools AD’s think he recruited an uncoachable group and he could thrive with better resources and exposure.

Or, we put too much stock into the 2017 mvc regular season and we don’t look into the fact this team didn’t overwhelme in the nonconference and lost by a combined 60 points the last two times we played Wichita State.

I hope we turn things around and win in St. Louis. But I feel a C grade is pretty generous to coach at this point.

No doubt he's trending downward. But this is fickle sport. Perhaps unlikely, but If ISU goes an on 8-game win streak absolutely everything changes. Plus the upward promotion has more to do with the domino effect of one coach leaving/getting fired - and - a coach getting hot at the right time.

Your point is well taken. My grade is still a C. A C is not good, it's not bad. It just meh. I'll bet DM would give himself no better than a C. Pure speculation of course. But it's your class, too. Flunk him if you want!

 

[Hamdonger]

I agree with jammin. This is FAR to common. Not only on the post-game, but the quotes in the Pantagraph where he is publicly criticizing the players - that is worse than fans booing. That is by far the number one most alums I know who know refuse to go to games is because of Muller's comments about players - when what he is saying is that he is not doing his job as a coach.

Dakich has an interesting podcast this week.
Accessible for free on his website - about the Indiana/Purdue game coming up. Regarding the intense rivalry. So he got some old IU players and some Purdue voices on the podcast. One of the things talked about was the "calling out" aspect of players by coaches.

Aren't you an old (well, not old!) Redbird athlete?? Football guy? Surprises me to hear you say this! I respect your opinion. But I hardly think Dan goes overboard. Compared to Donewald and Stallings, DM is lite mayo! JMO.

 

[Birdman07]

Dan could use some fire. Couldn't hurt.

 

[DWRedbird]

Drives me nuts how he stands on the sideline with his arms folded half of the time. GET INTO THE F'ING GAME.

Know what drives me nuts about the f'ing game?? Coaches who OVERfREAKIN'COACH from the sideline...at any level. Blowing gaskets every two seconds. Yelling yelling yelling yelling yelling. Who the heck can hear you when the crowd is engaged??? Makes em look like absolute fools, when in reality it's a whole lot of window dressing cause they somehow have convinced themselves they have to look and act that way to be a coach. And I love coaches and the biz and everything about it. Been one myself. PRACTICE is for the most intense coaching (sorry Ai) Gameday is the test. Drives me NUTS when fans, even educated ones, don't see a coach doing jumping jacks on the sideline 90% of the time and they think he/she is a shtty coach based on those optics. There are times for it, OF COURSE there are. Just not all the dang time.

I've seen Dan get plenty engaged over 7 yrs, and certainly this year as well. In saying that, yes Dan IS accountable and he gets a C so far from me this year. Ha, like it matters. My 2 cents which isn't even worth 2 cents.

I'm with you on this. I'm not a fan of coaches who are just out there yelling, stomping around and just generally looking like a horses behind. From sitting behind the visiting bench, I've seen more than a few and I'll you, it doesn't do anything extra to the players. If the coach yells to much, I think the players even just get use to it and it loses its meaning.

As far as Dan goes, he does get engaged, he does yell and such, but he's not ever going to be really demonstrative. He will rip into a guy when the guy does something wrong. Hell this year alone, I've seen him tear several guys new holes on the sidelines and in the huddle. But, while the game is going on I don't think Dan is ever going to be that guy who is ripping off his jacket and stomping up and down the sideline.

Were to give him a grade like Humdiner, I'd probably give his overall head coaching stint here at C-, trending towards D+. He's had some nice years here, and this year not withstanding, his teams are generally fun to watch. I think underperforming and looking towards next year is starting to become too much of a trend of his teams, but we'll see how things turn out.

 

[ricohill]

There are coaches that have widely varying degrees of sideline demeanor that have success. However, if you asked me to describe things in common between Dan Muller during games and how we play, I would say uninspired, not excited, emotionless, boring. Dan is never going to be a guy that gets into games on the sideline which is fine with Tony and Paris, but with other groups I don’t know how well it works.

 

[TIMMY]

I think if Dan ran around yelling and waving his arms this team would be undefeated.

Or..........They'd be just where they are and he would be criticized for running around yelling and waving his arms.

 

[ricohill]

I think if Dan ran around yelling and waving his arms this team would be undefeated.

Or..........They'd be just where they are and he would be criticized for running around yelling and waving his arms.

If he waived his arms around at least we would be entertaining and underachieving. Now we are boring and underachieving.