Indiana State - 01/04/2023 - 7:00 PM - ESPN+

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Buffett1

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MadBird said:
This is kinda my main takeaway basically all year - not each and every game, but starting with WIU. The Birds have gone down to several "inferior" teams, because they haven't played together, haven't hustled, haven't played smart - what else do you have? Plain old sad. Down the stretch, the other team goes to the line, misses a FT, and we let them come away with the board and get another possession. The other team misses a shot down the stretch when we need a board and they out hustle us and get the board. Or, we get the board but somebody drives into a 1 on 4 fast break, 4 men between our guy and the basket, and tosses up some gar-bage.

I don't blame Pedon much for all of this, altho maybe he's chewed the guys up at practice and no one has any confidence and they haven't learned to play together. And he hasn't "lit the fire" under them to hustle and play smart and all of that. I don't know.

Tonight, Poindexter hit a 3 with 4:57 left to cut the lead to 11. Sycamores were scoreless until 1:01 was left - the Birds held them for almost 4 minutes down the stretch. After Poindexter's 3, here's what we had - steal followed by turnover, steal followed by missed 3, rebound followed by missed FT, rebound followed by TO, missed jumper, rebound followed by 2 FT's to cut it to 9 with 1:57 left. 3 point play by Burford cut it to 6 with 1:01 left before InSU hit 2 FT's, and then basically a stand off. So five empty possessions in 3 minutes, then 5 points in a minute before they woke up and put the Birds away. Gotta do better.

I'm discouraged, but the damn thing is there is so much room for improvement and there've been some close games - 3 points to WIU, 3 points to Northwestern ST., 3 points to Murray St., 4 points to UIC. 6 to UNI. With some luck and smarts could be 10-6 with some self-respect.
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We also only beat some teams by 5. 2. 6. and 6
 
ISU86

ISU86

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Sycamores were 24-31 inside the arc. That should be seemingly near impossible.

Lose to a team whose best player becomes unavailable between shoot around and game time. InSU did not miss a beat for about the first thirty minutes. Blue went into a prevent/slow down mode the last part of the second half and we made it semi-interesting.

Pedon has a decision to make. Try to continue making these apparently dissimilar parts blend together cohesively, or run the systems that he would prefer to execute next season now and see which of the players will still fit the bill.
 
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Redbird222

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ISU86 said:
Sycamores were 24-31 inside the arc. That should be seemingly near impossible.

Lose to a team whose best player becomes unavailable between shoot around and game time. InSU did not miss a beat for about the first thirty minutes. Blue went into a prevent/slow down mode the last part of the second half and we made it semi-interesting.

Pedon has a decision to make. Try to continue making these apparently dissimilar parts blend together cohesively, or run the systems that he would prefer to execute next season now and see which of the players will still fit the bill.
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I said it in the UNI thread ... run the systems and see what players can do what. If they fail miserably so be it and bring the appropriate talent. In the meantime you may find a few piece thatvwork for the long run
 
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MadBird

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Oh yeah, two additional grievances:

How frustrating is it to need a true center, a "five" as they're called these days", and see InSU of all teams waltz in here with kid from up the road, a freshman, who just takes our pants down in the paint all damn night?? A freshman. Geez.

And then, you know, I overstate this, but we get the hose from the Sickamores who have a bunch of DII transfers out there most of the night - 3 transfers from Lincoln Memorial, 1 from Truman State, and 1 from Tusculum.

Thanks for listening.
 
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Scipio

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I walked out of the arena last night feeling pretty hopeless. I’m just not seeing any signs that this season is going to get better. Indiana State was by far the better team. Quick, efficient and knew what they wanted to do. I’ll say again; I don’t blame Pedon; yet.
 
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Popsto4

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MadBird said:
Oh yeah, two additional grievances:

How frustrating is it to need a true center, a "five" as they're called these days", and see InSU of all teams waltz in here with kid from up the road, a freshman, who just takes our pants down in the paint all damn night?? A freshman. Geez.

And then, you know, I overstate this, but we get the hose from the Sickamores who have a bunch of DII transfers out there most of the night - 3 transfers from Lincoln Memorial, 1 from Truman State, and 1 from Tusculum.

Thanks for listening.
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Yep I’ve said before we sure do need a true 5.
 
Matt Hein Fan

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I think this season has gotten to the point where Pedon has to understand that he can realistically lose every single player/assistant coach in the transfer portal and not really lose sleep about it.

This team seems to gel a lot more then previous teams have under Muller and seem like overall better teammates, but that is where the positives really end. Every single player has better alternatives out in the portal every year (that are capable for Pedon to grab).

Muller teams always had more talent then this team does, however his problem was that he could not develop nor coach them into actually consistently winning games. None of these players will be heading off to greener pastures such as Kentucky, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado State following this season. I’m not blaming Pedon as he had limited time to make relationships throughout the entire portal process but entering year 2 there has to be a focus on every scholarship is up for grabs. And have an honest talk with the majority of the team following the season.
 
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SlackBooDom

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Matt Hein Fan said:
I think this season has gotten to the point where Pedon has to understand that he can realistically lose every single player/assistant coach in the transfer portal and not really lose sleep about it.

This team seems to gel a lot more then previous teams have under Muller and seem like overall better teammates, but that is where the positives really end. Every single player has better alternatives out in the portal every year (that are capable for Pedon to grab).

Muller teams always had more talent then this team does, however his problem was that he could not develop nor coach them into actually consistently winning games. None of these players will be heading off to greener pastures such as Kentucky, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado State following this season. I’m not blaming Pedon as he had limited time to make relationships throughout the entire portal process but entering year 2 there has to be a focus on every scholarship is up for grabs. And have an honest talk with the majority of the team following the season.
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How does this help us get any better for the future? Wouldn't this mean Pedon's entire first year is a wash? He got some game management experience and knows what he doesn't want, but needs all new assistant coaches and players. Next year we have a brand new program again and if that doesn't go well we say he can lose everyone and try again in year three.

Our only meaningful win this year is against Belmont. We lost at home to Western Illinois and Northwestern State. Indiana State just led for 38+ minutes on the road against us. Illinois State ranks worse analytically than it did every year under Dan Muller by a wide margin. We have a parent of a player on the board questioning the game plan! Illinois State has become a bottom third basketball program in the country.
 
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Redbird28

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Something just occurred to me - we all know we typically play better in the second half of games.

Perhaps we'll play better in the second half of the conference schedule and heading into Arch Madness. That's what I'm going to hope for right now anyway.

As for last night - abysmal. Our defense was once again horrid, and while watching the game my Tree grad wife says, "Ever since Covid this team hasn't been the same. Well, really, ever since Duhon this team hasn't been the same as what it was in the years before." She has a bit of a point, but it's crazy to think how far we have fallen. It felt even worse to have to correct her because she thought the PLee, Hawkins, McIntosh and co. team was the example for what we could be. Truth is, it isn't. It can be so much better than even that team.

I've said it before but I come from the mid to late 90s as a student which for me, set the bar for Basketball and what I expect this program to be. I remember having to sit in the overflow of the upper bowl as a student all the way to the top of the section because Redbird was almost filled to capacity. Back to back regular season AND conference tournament champs. Home of Champions. It really meant something. I truly miss those days.
 
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SlackBooDom

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Redbird28 said:
Something just occurred to me - we all know we typically play better in the second half of games.

Perhaps we'll play better in the second half of the conference schedule and heading into Arch Madness. That's what I'm going to hope for right now anyway.

As for last night - abysmal. Our defense was once again horrid, and while watching the game my Tree grad wife says, "Ever since Covid this team hasn't been the same. Well, really, ever since Duhon this team hasn't been the same as what it was in the years before." She has a bit of a point, but it's crazy to think how far we have fallen. It felt even worse to have to correct her because she thought the PLee, Hawkins, McIntosh and co. team was the example for what we could be. Truth is, it isn't. It can be so much better than even that team.

I've said it before but I come from the mid to late 90s as a student which for me, set the bar for Basketball and what I expect this program to be. I remember having to sit in the overflow of the upper bowl as a student all the way to the top of the section because Redbird was almost filled to capacity. Back to back regular season AND conference tournament champs. Home of Champions. It really meant something. I truly miss those days.
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I feel the same way, in particular about attendance. We are "averaging" 3,200 right now - and having been to every game I know that isn't the case. It says 2,800 last night. Not close. 3200 for UNI, but it was half that. We give away tickets. We post promotional discounts on social media. How are we ever going to get 5,000 people to a game again? Sad, frustrating, embarassing.
 
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