Uni at Illinois State (11/2/19)

[TheTruth]

that's also why it needs to be communicated that an entry level league is not the endgame.

We had an administration that told the fans that we could be Kansas St. It didn't move the needle. Donations remained sparse and the much needed Hancock renovation still had to wait until student fee funds could be secured. If Redbird Nation really wanted to FBS we would be there.

You make a good point, Zenger was big on words but not a good fundraiser, but you're mistaken if you think "Redbird Nation" will be the ones who decide if the football program competes with its peers. That is ALWAYS a top down decision, if you don't have an administration that is committed (as Illinois State has never had) it can't be done. University presidents, A.D.s and in some cases coaches drive those type of movements, fans do not. College sports are a business and customers don't insist over and over that you improve your product offering, they merely move on to another product that gives them what they want. The fans are not to blame here, lack of a plan and/or lack of execution of a plan by the administration are to blame.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

I just saw this article. The youth on the UNI offense is pretty impressive. The article also states that the top two running backs for UNI were out for much of the game. Their QB picked up the team and carried it and the UNI Defense kept giving him the ball back. This looks to be a tough team next year as well.

http://www.chicagonow.com/prairie-state-pigskin/2019/11/3-things-we-learned-turnovers-spill-illinois-state-in-battle-of-top-10-teams/

 

[Total Red]

You make a good point, Zenger was big on words but not a good fundraiser, but you're mistaken if you think "Redbird Nation" will be the ones who decide if the football program competes with its peers. That is ALWAYS a top down decision, if you don't have an administration that is committed (as Illinois State has never had) it can't be done. University presidents, A.D.s and in some cases coaches drive those type of movements, fans do not. College sports are a business and customers don't insist over and over that you improve your product offering, they merely move on to another product that gives them what they want. The fans are not to blame here, lack of a plan and/or lack of execution of a plan by the administration are to blame.

Consumers DO drive the marketplace. Marketing firms are constantly asking consumers what they want and what they're willing to pay for. They don't waste a lot of time on things they don't want. If Redbird Nation really wanted to FBS we would be there.

Also I had some direct contacts with Sheahon Zenger and even more with the late great Aaron Leetch. I can assure you that they worked their tails off fundraising. I increased my annual donation in 2007 and I was amazed at the fuss they made over me because it wasn't a huge amount but I guess it was big by ISU standards. You can be very good at fundraising, which they were, but if fans aren't interested in what you're fundraising for then you aren't going to be successful. The administration has consistenly responded to the various levels of fan interest (football/basketball) and it has brought us to where we are today.

 

[ricohill]

You don't get anywhere with a University President and Athletic administration without a vision. Wichita State had that and moved up. ISU thinks small so they are small time. If ISU stays at FCS then it should be committed to being the best football team at that level. How in the world do North Dakota State and UNI in the middle of nowhere have better athletic programs is baffling?

I would love to know what is the plan from the athletic department to take ISU football and basketball to a higher level? I would venture they can't give you an answer. I emailed Dietz and he's happy with the success of the basketball program. Assume he is just as clueless about football.

 

[fourthandshort]

The play off game with Central Arkansas was televised...I can vividly remember the pain of watching the complete and utter collapse of the Redbirds in the 4th quarter after controlling the game. That 4th Quarter was just heartbreaking.

thanks for the correction...I thought I watched it online. Yes that was a win that slipped away

Who could forget that Purple and Grey field? :shock:
[/quote]

Ugh .. as in ughly. But still not as bad as EWUs red field.

 

[Redbirds100]

So Today

11th in Stats
12th in coaches poll

hard to believe.

Upset this weekend at SDSU? Ok no cool aide drinking ..........Vodka instead!!!

 

[TIMMY]

A few thoughts about the game and some of the comments on the board . . . . . .

Davis makes a couple nice "cross-field" passes, puts the ball on the dime, then proceeds to miss open men and toss some awful picks. I can see where he looks good in practice, then somehow gets in games and it leaves him. He had a bad 4th quarter, at minimum. Not sure what to do with him.

Why is football the only sport, for the most part, where one position/one guy can't ever be subbed for? I mean, Michael Jordan sat for a while on the bench. Pitchers in baseball get taken out, sometimes after one pitch. Linemen and RB's and WR's, etc. get rotated in and out. Pinch hitters and runners and defensive replacements in baseball. But in football??? No, the QB stays in till the bitter end. Playing crappy, not getting the job done, no deal, stay in and keep trying. I don't know what our backup QB's have to offer, but Saturday they needed to provide at least a change, a breather to Davis to collect himself, look over the plays from the sideline. I have to believe they could have done that. Guessing Jefferson could offer a change of pace - he is a running threat, yes?

One of our experts (Timmy for example) could correct or enhance this comment - seems like the OC has to develop plays, draw them up I mean as an offensive scheme (mostly pre-season, you know, the playbook), and then has to call the right plays during the game, and has to evaluate whether the players can execute the plays. Maybe you have some great long pass plays, but the QB doesn't have the arm, or the WR's don't have speed or can't get separation - so you don't call the long passes much. You might have, say, an all American RB but the line can't open up the holes. I sit and wonder which part of that equation is where we are failing. Do we not have "decent" plays? Does our OC not call the right plays during the game? Is our talent not up to the challenge? You sit and watch opponents, and somehow they have some "dazzling" looking plays, not every one, but when they need one. Some kind of blocking action or surprise motion or cut or something. We seem to pound ahead on run plays, do some plain vanilla sweeps, etc. I keep waiting for some nice looking something out of our offense, and we never seem to have one.

What would be wrong with putting Proctor in the wildcat now and then?

I'm not sure I agree with those who criticize Spack as the "root" of the offense problem. Isn't Spack a Joe Tiller disciple? There isn't anything dull about the Tiller offense. Wiki says he's one of the pioneers of the spread offense. Drew Brees? Kyle Orton? I don't know, I've gotta believe Spack isn't that much against something a little more open.

Why do other teams seem to hit their tight ends over the middle when they need a first, and us, not so much?

From the "game experience" department - okay, the crowd could have been bigger and more into it, but still . . . . There's like 150-200 people sitting over there on the west side in purple rooting for the visitors and chanting UNI-UNI when they were piling on, and you know, there's nada from our cheerleaders, nada from the BRMM. I get that it might have been too little too late at that point, but you know, let's make an effort to drown out the bad guys.

I know free speech and all of that, but I sure wish there were a prohibition against political advertising in the tailgate area. And enforce the no amplification device rule.

Luther Kirk made some serious hits in the secondary. Glad he came back.

Not sure if it's been Total Red or 4thandshort or both probably pointing this out - I'm intrigued by the apparent lack of recruiting success at the QB spot. And my thought is, no one who has left has seemed to come back and bite us. I could be forgetting someone, but it seems like we have these guys here and then some leave and disappear from the face of the earth, and others show up at WR or DB. But is it just a failure to score someone decent, or misjudging the talent? Or what? Did we have a walk-on a couple years ago who had a great spring and seemed lined up to be the backup and then never got a chance and went DIII or something and was successful? But I don't seem to remember any of our QB's moving on and showing up in the "headlines".

I may have more, but will send this along for now.

I don't think there is a backup QB. That's just an assumption. I would have pulled Brady earlier. My guess is they can't. Why don't coaches pull starting QB's faster? Most often reps in practice. It can be hard to get 2 QB's enough reps. At least in some coaches minds. Some are really good at it. I've been to some of Fitz's practices where the backup got more reps than the starter. He got that from Gary Barnett. But the NU offense hasn't changed much since Fitz took over. And he's a defensive coach. But they've had pretty good continuity.

Another thing you touched on are the WR's. It's an issue. It just is. Hard to call plays when you're hands are tied. I was with a WIU grad who I coached with for over 20 years. At one point he said "Coach "F1$# really. Was that even a route?" But it's the coaches who recruit and coaches who coach so ultimately that's where the buck stops.

That said 6-3 is no time to quit. I'm not giving up. There's a lot of season left.

Yeah if they think the pol. ads work maybe they're right. Has the opposite effect on me. I'll go out of my way to vote the other way. Vote TIMMY 2020!

 

[Total Red]

How in the world do North Dakota State and UNI in the middle of nowhere have better athletic programs is baffling?

Ask fans around BloNo to name their favorite sports team and you'll get a lot of Cardinals, Cubs and Bears. We're a professional sports state. Iowa not so much and North Dakota even less. When your #1 sports allegiance is a college team donations and attendance go up and recruiting, which is a challenge in a remote area, becomes easier.

Interestingly it isn't just FCS programs that can be negatively impacted by pro sports. Ohio St. is a collegiate juggernaut partly because the city of Columbus has be vigilant about not letting pro basketball or football into town. Do you think Cleveland and Cincinnati are better markets for pro franchises? Columbus has twice the population of any other Ohio city. It's good to be the only game in town.

 

[redbirdfan04]

Last year NIU had to buy over 56,000 tickets because they couldn't reach the required 15,000 per game minimum. It cost them nearly $300,000 in buy back tickets. The amount of people begging to move to FBS I do not think have a clue about the cost it would take. Right now our stadium does not hold 15,000 and if we go off our numbers our athletic department would be writing a check for almost $220,000 for empty seats. No thanks. I hear people say fire this person or that person but bringing in someone new isn't going to magically bring national championships, move up in football, or get us to the sweet 16. Of course i would like to win more what fan doesn't want that but moving to FBS in football isnt going to make things magically better. For those breaking down the doors for that to happen please open up your checkbooks because it will be about $5 million dollars up front to make the move and in reality closer to $15 million all in. Each year we are going to dish out money for unpaid tickets and make the stadium bigger. Good luck, people forget our university alumni are mostly teachers and nurses not really rolling in the money to give big donations.

Explain the accounting on how niu has to buy tickets from itself or its subsidiary department? Money out one pocket and back in the other. I take it is basically accounted as a subsidy from the university to the athletic department? However hard to knock NIU athletic department finances/business practices when ISU has the bigger athletic department subsidy..niu subsidy is $15.8mil and ISU is 19.4 mil annual. NIU athletic department (non-subsidy) revenue is greater than ISU by $500,000 annually. Yes ISU would have some investment needed for a higher football/improved conference but certainly there are some decent opportunities to increase revenues to pay for it. Football buy games, increased rights/licensing aa well as possibly ticket sales and stadium naming rights. I believe ISU could add several million dollars annually to their revenue. The big revenue in college sports is in football yet we play in an expensive football level (fcs) where there is little revenue opportunity overall and none post season to pay for expenses. Why is there little to no revenue in fcs football...because very few football fans are interested in FCS football.

With all that said I too was surprised the stadium was as empty as it looked on tv given the significance of the Uni/ISU game. However many (relative to fcs football fan size) may have been watching online which has value as well. I wonder if ISU is advised as to how many people watch their games online.

As an aside it surprises me that some mock playing in a televised football bowl game that pays money when ISU’s most recent post season football game was played 3 years ago at central arkansas on thanksgiving weekend and was non-televised.

Here is an article that helps explain the buy back. It more complicated than just writing a check to themselves.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://northernstar.info/sports/niu-ticket-office-buys-back-tickets/article_bbb9ac3a-d29b-11e8-b93d-ab88580751b3.html&ved=2ahUKEwiTtdGD8tHlAhVERK0KHXaqDzoQFjAPegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2_Ft7c83bQUMs3I6Idh61r

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Here is an article that helps explain the buy back. It more complicated than just writing a check to themselves.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://northernstar.info/sports/niu-ticket-office-buys-back-tickets/article_bbb9ac3a-d29b-11e8-b93d-ab88580751b3.html&ved=2ahUKEwiTtdGD8tHlAhVERK0KHXaqDzoQFjAPegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2_Ft7c83bQUMs3I6Idh61r

Article does not mention any of the accounting just provides information as to why and at what price (reduced prices). However fundamentally how can an entity meaningfully be the seller and the buyer in the same transaction? It only inflates revenues and inflates expenses but the net is zilch if all done by the NIU athletic department with no involvement from the university side. Even in the big picture of everything being NIU the net is zilch in that transaction.

 

[TIMMY]

How in the world do North Dakota State and UNI in the middle of nowhere have better athletic programs is baffling?

Ask fans around BloNo to name their favorite sports team and you'll get a lot of Cardinals, Cubs and Bears. We're a professional sports state. Iowa not so much and North Dakota even less. When your #1 sports allegiance is a college team donations and attendance go up and recruiting, which is a challenge in a remote area, becomes easier.

Interestingly it isn't just FCS programs that can be negatively impacted by pro sports. Ohio St. is a collegiate juggernaut partly because the city of Columbus has be vigilant about not letting pro basketball or football into town. Do you think Cleveland and Cincinnati are better markets for pro franchises? Columbus has twice the population of any other Ohio city. It's good to be the only game in town.

NU has been pretty good since Fitz took over and even before that. Chicago metro has a population of 9,500,000. They struggle filling that place even when they play schools that travel well. It's tough out there. Apparently tougher for some when the temperature dips below 50. :snooty:

 

[redbirdfan04]

How in the world do North Dakota State and UNI in the middle of nowhere have better athletic programs is baffling?

Ask fans around BloNo to name their favorite sports team and you'll get a lot of Cardinals, Cubs and Bears. We're a professional sports state. Iowa not so much and North Dakota even less. When your #1 sports allegiance is a college team donations and attendance go up and recruiting, which is a challenge in a remote area, becomes easier.

Interestingly it isn't just FCS programs that can be negatively impacted by pro sports. Ohio St. is a collegiate juggernaut partly because the city of Columbus has be vigilant about not letting pro basketball or football into town. Do you think Cleveland and Cincinnati are better markets for pro franchises? Columbus has twice the population of any other Ohio city. It's good to be the only game in town.

NU has been pretty good since Fitz took over and even before that. Chicago metro has a population of 9,500,000. They struggle filling that place even when they play schools that travel well. It's tough out there. Apparently tougher for some when the temperature dips below 50. :snooty:

Great point Timmy just google it College football attendance it is hurting everywhere. From the SEC to the BIG TEN to the MAC. Does anyone know how many tickets State Farm or other Corporate sponsors buy for ISU football games or are they just renting the luxury boxes and end zone?

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Butts in seats stadium seats is no longer the key measure of success for an athletic department’s performance. That ended in the 20th century according to at least one prominent A.D. What is heavily monitored is total revenue as there are now so many other sources of revenue that are of relevance/significance and can even be much greater than annual ticket sales such as rights/licensing, donations...etc. btw that comment came directly out of Barry alverez’s mouth who I see about 2/3 times a year at family functions. That is why bowl games pay so well yet stadiums are only 25 percent or 50 percent sold. Given that ISU fans are not big stadium fans late football season maybe it would be better if they played a game or two later in the year on a week nights so many more people can watch ISU football from their home and ISU can get in on the media revenue? I would personally prefer that but I am sure the locals and some fans would oppose.