Murray State is going to be very good next year as well

redbirds2000

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Aug 1, 2017
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1,376
Stupid how it's happened.
- Top 25
- NCAA team with a win
- Coach that got them to a high level of success coming back
- No real losses due to graduation

And NINE players decide "I can get something better". Give me a break. The ISU/Murray St/UNI/whatever mid major you want to list have ZERO chance of sustained success. Zero. Maybe you get a year. Maybe. Even with that, you can lose an entire team in a matter of two weeks. It's really killing my interest.
Lol...we haven't had sustained success in decades with the old system!
 

DougSutton

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Jul 17, 2017
Messages
98
Stupid how it's happened.
- Top 25
- NCAA team with a win
- Coach that got them to a high level of success coming back
- No real losses due to graduation

And NINE players decide "I can get something better". Give me a break. The ISU/Murray St/UNI/whatever mid major you want to list have ZERO chance of sustained success. Zero. Maybe you get a year. Maybe. Even with that, you can lose an entire team in a matter of two weeks. It's really killing my interest.
I understand and share a lot of this frustration with the portal. At the same time, I have always felt that if a coach is able to leave without sitting out a year and go to what he/she feels is a better opportunity, at the very minimum those kids on that roster should have the same opportunity to leave without having to sit out a year. Hopefully kids, for their own reasons, will decide to stay at a school but I have never bought into the old school argument that kids choose to go to a school more than for the coach (and staff) that recruited them.

An argument could be made that the coach that got Murray State to a high level of success is coming back but that coach didn't recruit any of these kids and based on results had a terrible last year of coaching.

I don't know the best answer and am saddened that college sports won't ever be what it used to. I remember Roy Williams in his press conference alluding to the same frustration relating to these changes with the portal (and one and done era), even for a team like UNC as he said what he valued most about being a coach was the process of recruiting these kids in their homes when they are in high school and bringing them onto campus while watching them mature and grow over the years all the way through to senior night and building lifelong relationships with them well beyond their playing days at the university.

Those days are gone, for all levels of college sports, especially the revenue generating ones.

Complete side note and I'm curious if anyone knows..... how many kids proportionately go into the transfer portal per sport. I'm curious what sports like Track and Field, Swimming, Volleyball, Baseball, Softball, etc. have compared to Men's Basketball and Football.
 

isuquinndog

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Murray will be okay. They're still a top "mid major brand." In recent years to you see teams like Loyola and VCU who are at the Birds level and have sustained success. It is possible, but you have to build a culture of pride and playing for the name on the front instead of the back. I know many think "culture" is over used and doesn't really mean anything, but it does. Look at Loyola. They lose a lot of talent and experience next year so I expect a bit of a drop off but their top players aren't getting poached. They have not had the transfer issues that other teams have had-even through a "coaching change." Wichita State had the same level of success by keeping teams together. Marshall is a creep but something about him kept his guys together.

Build a culture that players want to be apart of and you'll be successful. Yes, it's much harder at this level with guys in your best player's ears all year but it starts with getting the right people in the door. Muller's best season was built with guys here 4 years. Loyola's success the last three years has been with guys there 3-5 years.

UNI tends not to have guys transfer out either. St. Peter's success in the NCAA's was on the backs of juniors and seniors.

St. Pete is actually a school I feel bad for. Loyola, VCU, and Wichita State's Final 4 run paid off for all of their schools. Coaches came back and that impacted recruiting to when the coach does move on, there isn't a ton of drop off. St. Peter's on the other hand, had one year of success and they will be back to irrelevance and unlikely be able to capitalize on their Elite 8 year.
It's the combo of the portal, free year and NIL. And I'm not against them, in theory. But in practice it's destroying "the little guys" and making it many times harder than it used to be, which was already hard. I agree kids should be paid for their NIL (not just to play though! *cough* Kofi *cough*), I agree kids should be able to go elsewhere if their coach bolts without penalty.

I wonder how WSU would do in 2022 with the same team in the Valley when the went to the FF4. Think those kids stay with NIL money at bigger schools? Maybe because they had the Koch brothers who could give them that money. But I bet VanFleet and Shamet don't stay nearly as long at WSU like they did.

Just come out and say every one has a 1 year contract and it's free agency. You can just go to whatever team you want.
 

Adunk33

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9,339
It's the combo of the portal, free year and NIL. And I'm not against them, in theory. But in practice it's destroying "the little guys" and making it many times harder than it used to be, which was already hard. I agree kids should be paid for their NIL (not just to play though! *cough* Kofi *cough*), I agree kids should be able to go elsewhere if their coach bolts without penalty.

I wonder how WSU would do in 2022 with the same team in the Valley when the went to the FF4. Think those kids stay with NIL money at bigger schools? Maybe because they had the Koch brothers who could give them that money. But I bet VanFleet and Shamet don't stay nearly as long at WSU like they did.

Just come out and say every one has a 1 year contract and it's free agency. You can just go to whatever team you want.
Koch's would've kept any player thinking about leaving WSU in town just like they did with Marshall. Shamet was gonna be a leave early NBA guy regardless. Here's my portal proposal:


1.A player is allowed to transfer one time with no penalty, regardless of coach's status.

2. If your coach leaves or gets fired, you can transfer any time.(BS Example not considering interconference transfer rules: A freshman starts his year at ILST in 2021-22, Muller gets fired, the player leaves. Player transfers to Evansville for the 22-23 season, Lickliter gets fired or quits and the player can transfer again...and so on.)

3. If a player wants to transfer a second time, they can, but they will be required to redshirt one season and be ineligible for games during the first semester of the season after their RS year but use a whole year of eligibility (they will sit 1.5 years and burn 1 year of eligibility). No waivers will be given for any reason in this case. This also includes grad transfers.

I support a kids decision if he doesn't feel he is in the best situation. But when you get to be a Teddy Allen, Zach Lofton, or Charlie Moore where you end up at 4-5 different schools, that's where a kid needs to look in the mirror. No kid should ever need to play for 3 or more D1 schools over 5 years.
 

BirdGrad2011

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Jul 16, 2017
Messages
1,528
Koch's would've kept any player thinking about leaving WSU in town just like they did with Marshall. Shamet was gonna be a leave early NBA guy regardless. Here's my portal proposal:


1.A player is allowed to transfer one time with no penalty, regardless of coach's status.

2. If your coach leaves or gets fired, you can transfer any time.(BS Example not considering interconference transfer rules: A freshman starts his year at ILST in 2021-22, Muller gets fired, the player leaves. Player transfers to Evansville for the 22-23 season, Lickliter gets fired or quits and the player can transfer again...and so on.)

3. If a player wants to transfer a second time, they can, but they will be required to redshirt one season and be ineligible for games during the first semester of the season after their RS year but use a whole year of eligibility (they will sit 1.5 years and burn 1 year of eligibility). No waivers will be given for any reason in this case. This also includes grad transfers.

I support a kids decision if he doesn't feel he is in the best situation. But when you get to be a Teddy Allen, Zach Lofton, or Charlie Moore where you end up at 4-5 different schools, that's where a kid needs to look in the mirror. No kid should ever need to play for 3 or more D1 schools over 5 years.
That’s basically the current rule. Covid is making it all confusing.
 

MadBird

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Joined
Jul 16, 2017
Messages
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Location
Madison, Wisconsin
I understand and share a lot of this frustration with the portal. At the same time, I have always felt that if a coach is able to leave without sitting out a year and go to what he/she feels is a better opportunity, at the very minimum those kids on that roster should have the same opportunity to leave without having to sit out a year. Hopefully kids, for their own reasons, will decide to stay at a school but I have never bought into the old school argument that kids choose to go to a school more than for the coach (and staff) that recruited them.

An argument could be made that the coach that got Murray State to a high level of success is coming back but that coach didn't recruit any of these kids and based on results had a terrible last year of coaching.

I don't know the best answer and am saddened that college sports won't ever be what it used to. I remember Roy Williams in his press conference alluding to the same frustration relating to these changes with the portal (and one and done era), even for a team like UNC as he said what he valued most about being a coach was the process of recruiting these kids in their homes when they are in high school and bringing them onto campus while watching them mature and grow over the years all the way through to senior night and building lifelong relationships with them well beyond their playing days at the university.

Those days are gone, for all levels of college sports, especially the revenue generating ones.

Complete side note and I'm curious if anyone knows..... how many kids proportionately go into the transfer portal per sport. I'm curious what sports like Track and Field, Swimming, Volleyball, Baseball, Softball, etc. have compared to Men's Basketball and Football.

Based only on reading about Wisconsin v-ball, it is active. Maybe it's only at the highest levels, but UW has them coming in (and going out). Added a first-team all conference from MIchigan State (whose coach left), and one from Kansas. Already have transfers from N. Carolina, Iowa.
 

Birgs

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Oct 7, 2017
Messages
142
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Little Village | Chicago, IL
Dinosaur Birgs' timeline: Title IX; Prop 48; the whole redshirting adjustments in the early '90s. NBA to-and-fro with HS draftees, then, 1-and-dones. Yep. Totally different animal these days. This latest NIL and portal wave is just a new era, I suppose.

Time 4 me to sit back and see.
 
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