Muller / Hinson / Wardle - A comparison.

[jamminjamarsmiley]

As I have spent a great deal of time pondering the current state of ISU basketball and the MVC, I felt it was fitting to compare these three coaches over their tenure in the MVC. I wanted to include overall results, as well as the current state and the state of the program when each coach took over.

Muller

• 7 Seasons - Overall Record: 139-96 (.591 winning%) MVC record: 76-50 (.603 winning%)

• 1 Co MVC regular season title

• 2 NIT Bids (both advanced to 2nd round)

What he inherited:
Dan took over a program that finished 21-14 in 2011/2012, lost in MVC title game in OT to Doug McDermott and Creighton. Advanced to 2nd round of NIT and lost to Stanford on the road. Jankovich had built ISU into a fairly strong program in the MVC, but was never able to get them into the Dance.

Players: Stats from season prior to Muller arrival

• Jackie Carmichael: 14PPG, 53%FG, 9.7RPG, 50BLKS

• Tyler Brown: 13.7ppg, 45%FG

• Bryant Allen: 8ppg, 40%FG

• John Wilkins 8pphg, 41% FG, 4RPG

• John Ekey 9PPG, 46%FG 5RPG (Ended career at Illinois)

• Johnny Hill 2PPG (limited minutes in 11/12)

• Nick Ziesloft (ended career at Indiana)

Where he stands today
Dan was given a contract extension through 2024 worth 600K per season after the 2017 CoMVC championship season.

Barry Hinson

• 7 seasons at SIU - Overall Record: 116-106 (.523 winning), MVC record: 60-66 (.476 wining%)

• No postseason berths

• Best finish in the MVC was 17/18 where the Salukis were the 2 seed at Arch Madness with an 11-7 conference record. ISU defeated SIU in the Semis.

What he inherited:
Barry took over a Saluki program that finished 8-23 in 11/12, 5-13 in the MVC. They had not had a winning season since 2007 prior to Barry arriving.

Players: Stats from season prior to Hinson arrival

• Desmar Jackson (transfer in from Wyoming) 14.6ppg, 5rpg, Honorable mention all MWC

• Jeff Early 8.6ppg 3.8rpg, 45%fg

• Dantiel Daniels 8.3ppg 5rpg 56%fg

• Kendal Brown-Surles 8ppg 38%fg

Where he stands today
Resigned - was told this season it was NIT/NCAA or bust. He busted.

Brian Wardle

• In his 4th season at BU - Overall Record: 56-73 (.434 winning%), MVC record: 26-42 (.382 winning%)

• No postseason berths (could change in a few hours from now)

• Last season BU won 20 games, today he is playing for the MVC title and NCAA berth.

What he inherited:
Wardle took over a BU program that went 9-24 in 14/15. BU finished 10th in the MVC with a 3-15 record and fired Geno Ford.

Players: Stats from season prior to Wardle arrival.

• Ka'Darrly Bell 6 points, 2reb

• Donte Thomas 2.5pts, 2.5reb

Wardle basically did a COMPLETE tear down of the Braves Roster and re-booted. He went 5-27 in season 1, 13-20 in season 2, 20-13 season 3, 18-13 in season 4.

Where he stands today
Wardle is on the cusp of taking Bradley back to the NCAA tournament.

My observations:

• Dan and Barry are not that different. Dan had his magical 2017 season and should get credit for that season (yet ultimately fell short of NCAA aspirations). Barry had some rough seasons at the start - but he took over a program in the dumps. Shouldn't Dan be feeling the same pressure Barry felt at SIU? In my opinion that is fair that Dan should be feeling the pressure entering next season to produce.

• Wardle has done an impressive job building the program at BU and has now put them ahead of ISU and I look for that to continue. When you step back and look at the job he's done, you have the give the guy credit. He didnt have any talent to start with. Bradley was at rock bottom when he took over. Hard pill to swallow for a Redbird fan, but the reality is Bradley is on the national stage today, while ISU was embarrassed by a depleted Drake sqaud Friday

• I cant help but wonder what Barry's record would have been if ISU hired him instead of Dan? I do not think it would be any drastically different.

I'll hang up and listen to your thoughts....

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Bradley is on the national stage, and ISU has used that same stage to typically embarrass themselves. Where was ISU’s chance to Dance against a team with a losing record?

IMO, the difference between Muller and Hinson are AD support. Larry loves Dan. SIU has a new AD, and new AD’s like bringing in their people as coaches. I’m not even sold on the NCAA/NIT or bust story. Could be made up crap to allow Hinson to leave with a little dignity, given a resign or be fired choice. Make it look like something he agreed too.

 

[ricohill]

That is a pretty good look at the sad situation of ISU basketball. Muller should be feeling the heat, but won’t at all.

Hinson and Wardle took over programs at their worst and made them competitive. Dan took over a program that was in good shape and has it stuck in mediocrity heading south. Nothing gives me hope next year is any different. I see today ISU is in desperation mode offereing scholarships to anyone with a pulse.

If Dan is serious about winning he needs a new staff. They haven’t been able to recruit high level players since losing Dana and Ward. Yak was a great assistant to run his defense. Since he left they are awful on the defensive end. What was most embarrassing this weekend was Dan and his coaching staff arguing and looking clueless. At one point during the Evansville game Duhon subbed in a lineup without a 4 man. Muller chews him out and Duhon was no longer allowed to make subs. Later in the game Milik gets up, tells the coaching staff he’s going in, and subs himself in. Plus, Muller argued with Mullins most of the Drake game.

There are lots of head coaches that are only as good as their assistants. Dan appears to be a guy that needs lots of help. Right now Dan doesn’t have a staff that can carry him. He’s gotta go find coaches that know what they are doing or he’s going to get himself fired.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Especially since he’s coming back next year, I’m giving Muller a mulligan, or Mullergan if you wish, on this season. There were some apparent chemistry issues with this team and staff. Whatever is coming back related to those issues, Dan needs to purge. I’ll reevaluate after next year, but won’t be as kind if progress isn’t made. Considering ISU will be preseason Arch Madness First 4 Thursday night fodder, I’ll just be looking for evidence of overachieving expectations. ISU’s first game needs to be Friday. I don’t consider that a huge stretch assignment in this league.

 

[HT59]

That is a pretty good look at the sad situation of ISU basketball. Muller should be feeling the heat, but won’t at all.

Hinson and Wardle took over programs at their worst and made them competitive. Dan took over a program that was in good shape and has it stuck in mediocrity heading south. Nothing gives me hope next year is any different. I see today ISU is in desperation mode offereing scholarships to anyone with a pulse.

If Dan is serious about winning he needs a new staff. They haven’t been able to recruit high level players since losing Dana and Ward. Yak was a great assistant to run his defense. Since he left they are awful on the defensive end. What was most embarrassing this weekend was Dan and his coaching staff arguing and looking clueless. At one point during the Evansville game Duhon subbed in a lineup without a 4 man. Muller chews him out and Duhon was no longer allowed to make subs. Later in the game Milik gets up, tells the coaching staff he’s going in, and subs himself in. Plus, Muller argued with Mullins most of the Drake game.

There are lots of head coaches that are only as good as their assistants. Dan appears to be a guy that needs lots of help. Right now Dan doesn’t have a staff that can carry him. He’s gotta go find coaches that know what they are doing or he’s going to get himself fired.

:doh:

 

[Hamdonger]

Jamar I give you credit for an interesting and insightful post.

For me, Dan gets his mulligan from last year. I really believe, based on the roster we thought we were going to have ('17-'18) vs what we ended up with between academics and injury - no NCAA D1 team faced as much adversity as we did last year. We had a late addition walk-on getting substantial minutes. Think about that. Kudos to the kid, he actually played pretty decent. Last year was just adversity after adversity. Legitimate adversity.

This year, I don't know what in the holy hamburger happened. But it sure seemed to me that the entire unit (players AND coaches) were rarely on the same wavelength. We did show signs we could be good. Played Loyola well in both games, winning one, and sweeping Drake (decisively) in reg season.

Therefore I don't believe talent was or is the issue. Our cohesiveness (lack thereof) and ability to get down 20 IN THE FIRST HALF on numerous occasions showed we were quite weak from the mental side of the game. Almost astonishingly. Bob Knight always said mental toughness-is-to-the-physical as 4-is-to-1 in regards to the game. Heck that's a life lesson.
Odd because Dan was as mentally strong on the court as anyone we've ever had here.

Last year was a mulligan. This year the alarm is going off. Now, I'm good with hitting snooze a time or two but AD and Coach need to (and will) have a very formal sitdown and have clear established goals/benchmarks for our season next year. No way around it. I'm a DM supporter but this year falls completely in his lap.

I do believe Dan's confidence was somewhat shaken this year (lost some of his mojo but damn did he make a ballsy attempt to get it back with the late-game fouling game) and that surprises me a little bit. Watch the last post-game presser. It's more than disappointment from Dan. It's bewilderment.

We're all bewildered.

Not fans of their posting style but I give credit where it's due. Cali and JSN (i think) called us well under what the perceived expectations were believed to be by, for the most part, the masses. Yet in saying that, we even underperformed on their lower expectations.

I do have great confidence that no one associated with Redbird basketball will work harder (and hopefully smarter) to right our Reggie ship than Dan Muller.

 

[DWRedbird]

Jamar I give you credit for an interesting and insightful post.

For me, Dan gets his mulligan from last year. I really believe, based on the roster we thought we were going to have ('17-'18) vs what we ended up with between academics and injury - no NCAA D1 team faced as much adversity as we did last year. We had a late addition walk-on getting substantial minutes. Think about that. Kudos to the kid, he actually played pretty decent. Last year was just adversity after adversity. Legitimate adversity.

This year, I don't know what in the holy hamburger happened. But it sure seemed to me that the entire unit (players AND coaches) were rarely on the same wavelength. We did show signs we could be good. Played Loyola well in both games, winning one, and sweeping Drake (decisively) in reg season.

Therefore I don't believe talent was or is the issue. Our cohesiveness (lack thereof) and ability to get down 20 IN THE FIRST HALF on numerous occasions showed we were quite weak from the mental side of the game. Almost astonishingly. Bob Knight always said mental toughness-is-to-the-physical as 4-is-to-1 in regards to the game. Heck that's a life lesson.
Odd because Dan was as mentally strong on the court as anyone we've ever had here.

Last year was a mulligan. This year the alarm is going off. Now, I'm good with hitting snooze a time or two but AD and Coach need to (and will) have a very formal sitdown and have clear established goals/benchmarks for our season next year. No way around it. I'm a DM supporter but this year falls completely in his lap.

I do believe Dan's confidence was somewhat shaken this year (lost some of his mojo but damn did he make a ballsy attempt to get it back with the late-game fouling game) and that surprises me a little bit. Watch the last post-game presser. It's more than disappointment from Dan. It's bewilderment.

We're all bewildered.

Not fans of their posting style but I give credit where it's due. Cali and JSN (i think) called us well under what the perceived expectations were believed to be by, for the most part, the masses. Yet in saying that, we even underperformed on their lower expectations.

I do have great confidence that no one associated with Redbird basketball will work harder (and hopefully smarter) to right our Reggie ship than Dan Muller.

:text-+1:

 

[ricohill]

Bump....out coached by Brian Wardle. Bradley going to the NCAA tournament.

Dietz, Lyons, and Muller have absolutely destroyed ISU basketball and the athletics department.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Bump....out coached by Brian Wardle. Bradley going to the NCAA tournament.

Dietz, Lyons, and Muller have absolutely destroyed ISU basketball and the athletics department.

ISU handed BU the ticket out of Thursday night by blowing early double digits leads in both games. ISU acts like the game is over at the first media timeout. I guess since ISU mails it in if they are losing at that juncture.

 

[Trey_Guidry4three]

Lots of good stuff in that write up JJS. Now that Bradley is in the NCAA tourney he has accomplished more than Barry and Dan has combined. That's all I want as a fan is to dance again. Lots of people on these boards rip Bradley naturally because they are our rivals. I'll tip my hat to them. 0-5 in conference and down 18 in the title game. That's a team where the players buy into their coach!!

 

[ricohill]

Lots of good stuff in that write up JJS. Now that Bradley is in the NCAA tourney he has accomplished more than Barry and Dan has combined. That's all I want as a fan is to dance again. Lots of people on these boards rip Bradley naturally because they are our rivals. I'll tip my hat to them. 0-5 in conference and down 18 in the title game. That's a team where the players buy into their coach!!

They were 1-5 when ISU played at Bradley. ISU had a 9-2 lead and got pummeled. Bradley loses that game and their season is over. Muller pulls a Muller and now Bradley is going to the NCAA tournament.

For the few ISU fans left that care about winning this is a sad day.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

The only thing that surprises me is that ISU didn’t fire Wardle to hire Dan.

 

[Red Rocker]

Congrats to Wardle for taking a complete disaster on Jan 15th tI the dance. It’s something we know nothing about. We should take partial credit for their success as we gave them confidence and 2 wins. It maybe our best chance to feel success.

21 years and counting the longest of any MVC team having an NCAA drought. The stats show we are the door mat.

I am bewildered too as now more than 39 years as a fan and the last 60% of fandom is airballs. If we have to wait another 21 years there is a good chance many of us will be dead.

I don’t see any immediate road to get there with most of the MVC getting much better next year because they have good coaching and many more players returning.

I hate it, but we missed our cycle and chance to become the lead program in the league. Maybe my kids will catch it by the time they are my age.

 

[gobirds85]

Congrats to Wardle for taking a complete disaster on Jan 15th tI the dance. It’s something we know nothing about. We should take partial credit for their success as we gave them confidence and 2 wins. It maybe our best chance to feel success.

21 years and counting the longest of any MVC team having an NCAA drought. The stats show we are the door mat.

I am bewildered too as now more than 39 years as a fan and the last 60% of fandom is airballs. If we have to wait another 21 years there is a good chance many of us will be dead.

I don’t see any immediate road to get there with most of the MVC getting much better next year because they have good coaching and many more players returning.

I hate it, but we missed our cycle and chance to become the lead program in the league. Maybe my kids will catch it by the time they are my age.

Sad, but true. We couldn’t get out of Friday night in the 17th ranked conference that will be represented by a 15 seed who will be stomped by the 2 seed. All this with four seniors and a seven year coach.

This is Redbird basketball.

 

[ricohill]

Congrats to Wardle for taking a complete disaster on Jan 15th tI the dance. It’s something we know nothing about. We should take partial credit for their success as we gave them confidence and 2 wins. It maybe our best chance to feel success.

21 years and counting the longest of any MVC team having an NCAA drought. The stats show we are the door mat.

I am bewildered too as now more than 39 years as a fan and the last 60% of fandom is airballs. If we have to wait another 21 years there is a good chance many of us will be dead.

I don’t see any immediate road to get there with most of the MVC getting much better next year because they have good coaching and many more players returning.

I hate it, but we missed our cycle and chance to become the lead program in the league. Maybe my kids will catch it by the time they are my age.

Sad, but true. We couldn’t get out of Friday night in the 17th ranked conference that will be represented by a 15 seed who will be stomped by the 2 seed. All this with four seniors and a seven year coach.

This is Redbird basketball.

LOL sad, but true. It’s all going to be better next year after the team gets off to a bad start, starts to gel in February, and tries to make a run as a 6 seed. I can hear the excuses already now from Muller.

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

Congrats to BU and Wardle. I had this gut feeling last night that BU was going to win today, which is what inspired me to post this. Love or hate Dan, Wardle has become more accomplished than him in his 4 years at BU. I think we may be looking up at BU for years to come.

 

[gobirds72]

Bump....out coached by Brian Wardle. Bradley going to the NCAA tournament.

Dietz, Lyons, and Muller have absolutely destroyed ISU basketball and the athletics department.

These 3 bozo’s have put Redbird basketball in a terrible situation! It won’t get better...because we can’t differentiate between muller as a player and a coach! Coaching is a different ball game than playing!

 

[Metamoron]

Both Wardle and Gregg Marshall tore their new teams down to the bones and built them up from scratch. It meant losing early but getting buy in and building a culture.

Both Jankovich and Muller kept us competitive through all (or almost all) years but never over the hump at times when the MVC was stronger than this.

And just to remind everyone that on about Jan 20 most Bradley fans were ready to fire Wardle. Maybe that’s an omen for us.......

 

[gobirds85]

So just so I understand the thread...muller is 0-7, Hinson is 0-17 and wardle is 1-4.

I suck at math but it seems like the choice is obvious. Hinson right?!?

 

[ricohill]

Wardle is 1-8 if you include Green Bay. So Muller still has 2 seasons overall to catch him in career seasons.

https://twitter.com/kurtpegler/status/1104935863564288000?s=21

Such a sickening scene. Bob Donewald is rolling over in his grave. (It’s a joke for those that don’t get it.)