Kindred discusses Donewald era

[Hrtnfldhse]

Did anyone read the article on ESPN regarding the University of Houston’s climb back to the top?
Basically you can point to the extremely strong support of their current president (along with a hefty donation), but the point being...it’s possible, if you have the right group. We clearly don’t

I wonder how much Sampson had to do with it. He's had sanctions at two other P5 schools, Oklahoma and Indiana. Probably not a good example.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Did anyone read the article on ESPN regarding the University of Houston’s climb back to the top?
Basically you can point to the extremely strong support of their current president (along with a hefty donation), but the point being...it’s possible, if you have the right group. We clearly don’t

I wonder how much Sampson had to do with it. He's had sanctions at two other P5 schools, Oklahoma and Indiana. Probably not a good example.

I don't recall the sanctions being for anything that serious but you are right...they're still sanctions. That said, the NCAA is a joke, so there's that....

 

[Redbird222]

Did anyone read the article on ESPN regarding the University of Houston’s climb back to the top?
Basically you can point to the extremely strong support of their current president (along with a hefty donation), but the point being...it’s possible, if you have the right group. We clearly don’t

I wonder how much Sampson had to do with it. He's had sanctions at two other P5 schools, Oklahoma and Indiana. Probably not a good example.

I don't recall the sanctions being for anything that serious but you are right...they're still sanctions. That said, the NCAA is a joke, so there's that....

http://www.espn.com/ncb/news/story/_/id/3725832

Kelvin Sampson resigned as Indiana coach last February amid a burgeoning scandal over NCAA recruiting violations involving improper telephone calls. Now, the NCAA is taking the step to ensure he can't coach a college program for at least five years.

Sampson, now an assistant with the NBA's Milwaukee Bucks, received a five-year show-cause penalty -- one of the harshest the NCAA can levy against an individual -- while the Hoosiers' program has been spared a postseason ban.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

I wonder how much Sampson had to do with it. He's had sanctions at two other P5 schools, Oklahoma and Indiana. Probably not a good example.

I don't recall the sanctions being for anything that serious but you are right...they're still sanctions. That said, the NCAA is a joke, so there's that....

http://www.espn.com/ncb/news/story/_/id/3725832

Kelvin Sampson resigned as Indiana coach last February amid a burgeoning scandal over NCAA recruiting violations involving improper telephone calls. Now, the NCAA is taking the step to ensure he can't coach a college program for at least five years.

Sampson, now an assistant with the NBA's Milwaukee Bucks, received a five-year show-cause penalty -- one of the harshest the NCAA can levy against an individual -- while the Hoosiers' program has been spared a postseason ban.

I'm almost at the point where I'd risk sanctions for any kind of success.

 

[RBFANTOO]

Since we have been discussing the Donewald firing and other coaches we should also mention Porter Moser. Since he has taken Loyola to the final 4 last year and has now won back to back MVC conference championships, how did ISU make the same mistake again by firing Moser?

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

Since we have been discussing the Donewald firing and other coaches we should also mention Porter Moser. Since he has taken Loyola to the final 4 last year and has now won back to back MVC conference championships, how did ISU make the same mistake again by firing Moser?

No - at the time, it was the right call. Porter learned a lot from his time with Rick Majerus and became a better coach because of it. However - I will say Porter was starting to recruit some very good players as he was walked out. Jankovich certainly benefited from the roster he inherited.

 

[jbird]

Moser had maybe a .400 winning percentage at ISU. There was probably close to zero support to keep him from fans on this board or from fans and alumni in general.

I wonder whether the Donewald love would be the same here if he had taken the Arkansas job that subsequently went to Nolan Richardson. Maybe he turned Arkansas down at the last moment, but he was certainly "window shopping" to leave ISU.

I have no idea whether he deserved to be fired by Wellman....... I wasn't present during their private discussions;I know, however, that if my boss told me that I had to do certain things and I told my boss to bite me, I would likely lose my job regardless of any prior positive personnel evaluations.

Also, interesting to read that Bender's success was based on Donewald players, but no mention that Donewald inherited Derrick Mayes, Ronnie Jones, Del Yarbrough and Joe Galvin from his predecessor but failed to make any postseason play.

Donewald was a good coach and he got ISU to the NCAA tourney three times, but I only recall the win at Horton over Tulsa as our only automatic bid; the other two bids were in an era when at-large bids were not consumed by the seventh and eighth place teams in P5 conferences.

I'll give Donewald a lot of credit, but not exaggerated credit. His final couple of recruiting classes were subpar. How many NCAA tourneys would we have made with Sean and Shawn Wightman, Kirk McGrath and Mark Kraatz? How many NCAA tourneys did Western Michigan earn with him?

 

[ricohill]

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1102074799667449856

Interesting that Wellman is now credited with destroying the Wake Forest basketball program before he retired.

 

[Bird Friend]

Moser had maybe a .400 winning percentage at ISU. There was probably close to zero support to keep him from fans on this board or from fans and alumni in general.

I wonder whether the Donewald love would be the same here if he had taken the Arkansas job that subsequently went to Nolan Richardson. Maybe he turned Arkansas down at the last moment, but he was certainly "window shopping" to leave ISU.

I have no idea whether he deserved to be fired by Wellman....... I wasn't present during their private discussions;I know, however, that if my boss told me that I had to do certain things and I told my boss to bite me, I would likely lose my job regardless of any prior positive personnel evaluations.

Also, interesting to read that Bender's success was based on Donewald players, but no mention that Donewald inherited Derrick Mayes, Ronnie Jones, Del Yarbrough and Joe Galvin from his predecessor but failed to make any postseason play.

Donewald was a good coach and he got ISU to the NCAA tourney three times, but I only recall the win at Horton over Tulsa as our only automatic bid; the other two bids were in an era when at-large bids were not consumed by the seventh and eighth place teams in P5 conferences.

I'll give Donewald a lot of credit, but not exaggerated credit. His final couple of recruiting classes were subpar. How many NCAA tourneys would we have made with Sean and Shawn Wightman, Kirk McGrath and Mark Kraatz? How many NCAA tourneys did Western Michigan earn with him?

He wasn’t on their list until he and Knight told them he was on their list. Donewald lobbied for the Arkansas job. He didn’t turn it down.

 

[bb fan]

It is funny to me that I read somewhere here a put down on the program because we "fired a final four coach". Like you pointed out jbird, there was a strong consensus at the time that Porter needed to go, but now some trying to find fault with our admins is contorting to say now firing Porter is another sign of poor leadership. When it was clear that we were trying to better the program, and it was expensive to do so. Something those who now say we have been cheap will not recognize. And ya know what? Maybe it was a mistake. But it was done for the right reasons.

Wellman is an interesting guy. Say what you want about him, but he probably executed on of the most difficult things in the history of our athletics when he gave HCBD the hook. You either loved Bob, or you hated him. He did things that were polarizing. And Ron knew he would have a mess whichever way he went. And if he was so bad for Wake Forest, it sure took them a looooong time figuring that out.

AD's have tough calls to make. Porter and Bob are good examples.

 

[ricohill]

Porter was a no brainer. He 100% should have been fired. His conference record was awful and was never competitive in MVC play. He's a great guy, but at the time was not a great coach.

 

[TIMMY]

Also, interesting to read that Bender's success was based on Donewald players, but no mention that Donewald inherited Derrick Mayes, Ronnie Jones, Del Yarbrough and Joe Galvin from his predecessor but failed to make any postseason play.

A couple things about that. Donewald and that team were a pretty big disappointment. But those guys were not about to completely buy into Donewald's (Knights) man defense. And there was no way Bob was going to give a inch on that. Geez anyone remember Galvin trying to pick up Mark Aguirre at half court. Not pretty.

Also, there was some culture shock :shock: going from Smithson to Donewald. Complete opposites. In a way it's surprising how well Bob kept them together. Of course their were no expert fan boards back then. :think:

 

[jbird]

Also, interesting to read that Bender's success was based on Donewald players, but no mention that Donewald inherited Derrick Mayes, Ronnie Jones, Del Yarbrough and Joe Galvin from his predecessor but failed to make any postseason play.

A couple things about that. Donewald and that team were a pretty big disappointment. But those guys were not about to completely buy into Donewald's (Knights) man defense. And there was no way Bob was going to give a inch on that. Geez anyone remember Galvin trying to pick up Mark Aguirre at half court. Not pretty.

Also, there was some culture shock :shock: going from Smithson to Donewald. Complete opposites. In a way it's surprising how well Bob kept them together. Of course their were no expert fan boards back then. :think:

The "Incredible Shrinking Mark Aguirre"..........6'-8" at Westinghouse; 6'-6" at DePaul; and 6'-4" in the NBA.

 

[TIMMY]

Also, interesting to read that Bender's success was based on Donewald players, but no mention that Donewald inherited Derrick Mayes, Ronnie Jones, Del Yarbrough and Joe Galvin from his predecessor but failed to make any postseason play.

A couple things about that. Donewald and that team were a pretty big disappointment. But those guys were not about to completely buy into Donewald's (Knights) man defense. And there was no way Bob was going to give a inch on that. Geez anyone remember Galvin trying to pick up Mark Aguirre at half court. Not pretty.

Also, there was some culture shock :shock: going from Smithson to Donewald. Complete opposites. In a way it's surprising how well Bob kept them together. Of course their were no expert fan boards back then. :think:

The "Incredible Shrinking Mark Aguirre"..........6'-8" at Westinghouse; 6'-6" at DePaul; and 6'-4" in the NBA.

4'10" sitting in "his" Caddy Convertible.

 

[Bdub777]

The Donewald era was during my on-campus time. Lamb, Malaine, Tyus, H.Cornley, Zwart, Duncan, Johnson, McKenny, Stefanovic, Anderson, Braksick, Sanders, Holifield, Taphorn, etc. Good run.

Not to mention, outside of Thomas, all of Bender's tournament team contributors were Donewald players as well.

I always felt the college rule changes implemented around that time (45-second clock, three-point line) went directly against the style of game he was best at coaching.

That, and President Lloyd "Floyd the Barber" Watkins was not a big fan.

Just to set the record straight, Watkins hired Donewald, and was retired when he was fired. Tom Wallace was President when Donewald was fired by AD Ron Wellman. Donewald tried to claim in his lawsuit against ISU that Watkins wrote a letter to him that was a five year contractual commitment even though state law prohibited multi-year contracts for state employees at the time. Watkins had nothing to do with his firing, but I also know he regretted the letter and also agreed that his declining record and his deteriorating relationships at ISU and the broader community merited his firing. He was a jerk at the end, pure and simple. Truly a Bobby Knight trajectory (no coincidence there). Same thing happened at a Western Michigan.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

A couple things about that. Donewald and that team were a pretty big disappointment. But those guys were not about to completely buy into Donewald's (Knights) man defense. And there was no way Bob was going to give a inch on that. Geez anyone remember Galvin trying to pick up Mark Aguirre at half court. Not pretty.

Also, there was some culture shock :shock: going from Smithson to Donewald. Complete opposites. In a way it's surprising how well Bob kept them together. Of course their were no expert fan boards back then. :think:

The "Incredible Shrinking Mark Aguirre"..........6'-8" at Westinghouse; 6'-6" at DePaul; and 6'-4" in the NBA.

4'10" sitting in "his" Caddy Convertible.

4’10” Aguirre would still be better than pretty much anything I’ve seen on a Redbird court.

 

[Bdub777]

:

It is funny to me that I read somewhere here a put down on the program because we "fired a final four coach". Like you pointed out jbird, there was a strong consensus at the time that Porter needed to go, but now some trying to find fault with our admins is contorting to say now firing Porter is another sign of poor leadership. When it was clear that we were trying to better the program, and it was expensive to do so. Something those who now say we have been cheap will not recognize. And ya know what? Maybe it was a mistake. But it was done for the right reasons.

Wellman is an interesting guy. Say what you want about him, but he probably executed on of the most difficult things in the history of our athletics when he gave HCBD the hook. You either loved Bob, or you hated him. He did things that were polarizing. And Ron knew he would have a mess whichever way he went. And if he was so bad for Wake Forest, it sure took them a looooong time figuring that out.

AD's have tough calls to make. Porter and Bob are good examples.

:text-+1: Smart post.