It Creeps?

[FriscoBird90]

Applying a landscaping saying to establishing a basketball program: the first year it sleeps, the second year it creeps, and the third year it leaps. Had the Birds not lost the Valpo and UIC games, they would currently be 8-7 in the conference (5th place) with a 14-12 overall record. Most of us would probably regard that as a fair, though not stunning, amount of progress. Unfortunately, the Valpo and UIC games did turn out the way they did, which currently have our Birds at 6-9 (T-9th place) and 12-14 overall. So, the question is, is the program "creeping" in a positive direction, or is its growth still stunted?

Now, I've never been accused of being a "sunshine pumper," and I am 772 miles away from CEFCU Arena, so take this long-distance opinion for what it is worth(less). We have seen the roster's limitations and inconsistencies play out during the season to-date. However, in the last two road games we have seen potential in some of its pieces. The growth this season has not been as strong as anticipated, but in the afterglow of a big road win in a place where, historically, the Birds have laid numerous eggs, I hope the future of the program will prove not as bleak as it appeared only seven days ago IF, IF, IF a few more pieces can be developed and added in the near future.

 

[Redbird28]

11-21 last season.

Currently, 12-14 this season. Would definitely like to see us get back to and over 500 before the end of the year. We've flirted with it a few times now. It's time to kick that door in and finish the regular season on an upward trend, but that's going to require winning 3 of the final 4 games on our home court. Then yes, I'd say, it creeps is certainly appropriate for this year.

As far as leaping goes, we need Johnny and Chase to stick around and keeping improving on the foundation that they are a huge part of building. Verdict is still out on Pence - it might just take him longer to acclimate than anyone hoped. Not sure if Foster has any more eligibility left, but it would be nice if he did and he was here for 1 more year to help bridge Chase's development. The two of them together have looked pretty solid.

Who can return? Who will return? Who will they unearth in the portal? The scholarship matrix seems to indicate that all are done after this year, but surely some of them have 1 more year left. The answer to those 3 questions ill dictate whether we take a massive leap next year or not. I think Johnny is going to put a ton of work in, he just seems to be that type of player/mentality, and I suspect he is going to take a huge leap and provide more consistency than a typical freshman going from year 1 to year 2. If that work ethic seeps into the rest of the team then anything is possible.

 

[Hrtnfldhse]

I would say each step would take a little longer, so maybe 1-2 years each step. We have had a little bit of both, sleeping and creeping this year. Next year is a big year, we have to see signs of leaping next year with year 4 the big step to contender in the MVC

 

[Aggie]

The two games you mentioned that could have an entire different outlook to the season are the type of games one must win to have a successful program. These games also drag down a program if you cannot put them away in the win column.
Your next question on next year totally depends on two conditions. Number one who stays particularly JK and Foster and Walker. Number two, who do you add. Banks needs to stay also, unless you bring in a better point guard. JK playing off the ball with Banks bringing it up the court seemed to work well against ISU blue. Lewis had a good game and the question that is probably answered already can Walker and Foster do what Lewis and Foster did in the ISU blue game consistently next year.
Another wide body and a scoring wing would be nice also. If the other guards come back for another year that is probably ok also. So my opinion which is not worth much is another wide body bruiser and a scoring wing and progress will be made.

 

[Adunk33]

Add at Evansville and SIU at home to the list of ones that should’ve gone the other way. Could realistically be 10-5.

We’ve all commented how the team plays better on the road. I really do think on the road, they feel like they’re playing with house money and just go out and ball. At home, they play like all of their chips are pushed to the center of the table and they’re waiting for the cards to turn.

I wonder if the crowd gave them some juice and fed them with some energy, we might see better results. Our crowds suck. The ones that do go, don’t interact in the game. Yeah, I know. “Nothing to cheer for, blah, blah, blah.” But here’s an interesting quote from our own, Johnny Basketball that could suggest the fans gotta do their part too.

JK on the INST game

“It was just the energy in the game. We knew that this was gonna be a big game for them coming in, so I think just the energy throughout the whole game got the whole team going," Kinziger said. "When you hit a shot, you gotta show that a little bit. And it kind of gets everyone else going, too. So, I was just trying to fire the team up and just keep the momentum going.”

 

[Birgs]

I do like the concept of your timeline. As others have eluded, it may be extrapolated slightly differently - as in streeetched slightly considering pro's/con's of Portal and NIL negatives/positives. I still wouldn't mind maybe a JUCO or two influx to really catalyze the two key Freshman "core" as they blossom as Sophs and hit the gas a little more in Year 3.

 

[DoubleDeuce]

I wonder if the crowd gave them some juice and fed them with some energy, we might see better results. Our crowds suck. The ones that do go, don’t interact in the game. Yeah, I know. “Nothing to cheer for, blah, blah, blah.” But here’s an interesting quote from our own, Johnny Basketball that could suggest the fans gotta do their part too.

JK on the INST game

“It was just the energy in the game. We knew that this was gonna be a big game for them coming in, so I think just the energy throughout the whole game got the whole team going," Kinziger said. "When you hit a shot, you gotta show that a little bit. And it kind of gets everyone else going, too. So, I was just trying to fire the team up and just keep the momentum going.”

This doesn't have to be a chicken and egg situation (fans only cheer if team performs/team only performs if fans engaged). They don't have to wait on each other...everyone can bring at the same time! If the team continues to come out with the kind of energy they did last night and the fans (hopefully a better crowd this weekend) bring some energy, sky is the limit...at least the ceiling is raised.

Definitely more energy for road games...I recall Kasubke waving goodbye to the Murray State student section. I would be shocked if the guys are not on fire for the game in Peoria (aka rat infested smelly river town).

 

[MadBird]

The two games you mentioned that could have an entire different outlook to the season are the type of games one must win to have a successful program. These games also drag down a program if you cannot put them away in the win column.
Your next question on next year totally depends on two conditions. Number one who stays particularly JK and Foster and Walker. Number two, who do you add. Banks needs to stay also, unless you bring in a better point guard. JK playing off the ball with Banks bringing it up the court seemed to work well against ISU blue. Lewis had a good game and the question that is probably answered already can Walker and Foster do what Lewis and Foster did in the ISU blue game consistently next year.
Another wide body and a scoring wing would be nice also. If the other guards come back for another year that is probably ok also. So my opinion which is not worth much is another wide body bruiser and a scoring wing and progress will be made.

Agree with most of this. Always am a fan of a wide-body. But, two things . . . . .

First, we're sort of bringing in two scoring wings. Both incoming HS guys 6'7 200 lb Jack Daugherty, and 6'4 Cade Norris seem like they fit that bill. Let's say, hope they fill the bill.

Second, I guess it's sort of a "wing" guy, but when I look at guys from other MVC teams who've caused problems, there's losta 6'8, 6'9 kinda wing/cutter/jack of all trades kind of guys who've hurt us. Not big post up guys, but slimmer cutter/shooter type guys. Guys like Jayson Kent from ISUblue, Toby Okani UIC, Duax UNI, D'Amico SIU, Leons BU, DeVries and Ferguson DU, Tyson from Belmont. .Daugherty may be in that mold.

So if I was gonna go portal shopping, I'd add a "slim fast" versatile 6'8 guy to the list. Lewis fits that, altho I'm thinking a couple inches taller.

I'll add this here. If you're looking to spend some free time, go to nsicnetwork.com - free streaming broadcasts of DII conference Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (in many ways descendant of the Dakotas' old conference). Find a game for Northern State U, and watch Mr. Jacksen Moni, 6'10 225 lb. Would be an interesting "recruit" I think if he were looking to move up.

 

[Birgs]

Agree with most of this. Always am a fan of a wide-body. But, two things . . . . .

First, we're sort of bringing in two scoring wings. Both incoming HS guys 6'7 200 lb Jack Daugherty, and 6'4 Cade Norris seem like they fit that bill. Let's say, hope they fill the bill.

Second, I guess it's sort of a "wing" guy, but when I look at guys from other MVC teams who've caused problems, there's losta 6'8, 6'9 kinda wing/cutter/jack of all trades kind of guys who've hurt us. Not big post up guys, but slimmer cutter/shooter type guys. Guys like Jayson Kent from ISUblue, Toby Okani UIC, Duax UNI, D'Amico SIU, Leons BU, DeVries and Ferguson DU, Tyson from Belmont. .Daugherty may be in that mold.

So if I was gonna go portal shopping, I'd add a "slim fast" versatile 6'8 guy to the list. Lewis fits that, altho I'm thinking a couple inches taller.

I'll add this here. If you're looking to spend some free time, go to nsicnetwork.com - free streaming broadcasts of DII conference Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (in many ways descendant of the Dakotas' old conference). Find a game for Northern State U, and watch Mr. Jacksen Moni, 6'10 225 lb. Would be an interesting "recruit" I think if he were looking to move up.

Absolutely spot-on across the board!

Those "wing-y" types and the slash/cut potential would be an instant band-aid on poor 3-pt. shooting nights (or seasons).

 

[TBS_20]

They need to get two 3-point shooters out of the portal and a HS big. It doesn't matter if they're wing types we just need the shooting. Schmitt and Lewis are gone and I'm sure someone will be forced out or want to transfer, like sasoko

 

[Phantom]

Absolutely spot-on across the board!

Those "wing-y" types and the slash/cut potential would be an instant band-aid on poor 3-pt. shooting nights (or seasons).

Which, although every season is different and hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but had we just shot a LITTLE better throughout this season, we'd be significantly better than 12-14 right now. With some shooters we might be able to take a sizable leap next year.

 

[MadBird]

Which, although every season is different and hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but had we just shot a LITTLE better throughout this season, we'd be significantly better than 12-14 right now. With some shooters we might be able to take a sizable leap next year.

I don't throw this out there to dog Pedon, wading through the portal can't be easy. Two shooters that are "out there" (and I know comparing "level of competition is a tough call too) --

Our former walk-on, Jayden Johnson, is at U of I - Springfield. Shooting 48% from 3, mostly coming off the bench, 18 minutes per game, 48 made threes in 25 games, so not dropping them all day long. But still, 48%.

At UW-Green Bay, is a freshman from Yorkville Christian, David Douglas, seems like he got no schollie offers in Illinois so went to UWGB. Shooting 40% from 3, 43 made in 23 games. 6'5 guard. 21 minutes a game, second leading scorer on a 17-9 team. Slipped under the radar as a HS senior I guess.

 

[Dmills]

2 other Illinois natives (former recruiting targets) having great seasons that would be a big help:

Zach Cleveland - Zach Cleveland Career Stats - NCAAM - ESPN

Nick Martinelli - Nick Martinelli - Northwestern Wildcats Forward - ESPN

Liberty is a middle of the pack CUSA team this year. It's possible that Zach could move after this year. I'd love to bring him home. His stats are similar to Foster his junior year at Monmouth except he has a higher FG% and more assists. It seems like he must facilitate a lot of the offense with 4.1 APG. Apparently is not much of a shooter outside the paint.

I don't see Martinelli leaving Northwestern with the year they are having. It looks like Collins will live to see another day. He will probably start for them next year, definitely trending up.

 

[SlackBooDom]

Posted this back in November, but feels relevant for the topic.

“
Dan Muller: 18-15 Y1, 18-16 Y2
Ryan Pedon: 11-21 Y1, 3-3 Y2
David Ragland: 5-27 Y1, 6-0 Y2
Steve Prohm: 17-15 Y1, 2-3 Y2
Bryan Mullins: 16-16 Y1, 12-14 Y2
Luke Yaklich (Horizon): 9-13 Y1, 14-16 Y2
Luke Yaklich (MVC): 12-20 Y1, 5-2 Y2
Dana Ford: 16-16 Y1, 16-17 Y2
Josh Schertz: 11-20 Y1, 23-13 Y2
Darian Devries: 24-10 Y1, 20-14 Y2
Brian Wardle: 5-27 Y1, 13-20 Y2

David Ragland will make a big jump. Yak will too. Josh Schertz has done a great job in Terre Haute. Wardle did well to improve. Outside of that, I would say this actually helped me see year two for what it is - establishing culture and improving with the core group. Expectations feel a little reset in my eyes seeing it with numbers for the rest of the league.”

 

[MadBird]

2 other Illinois natives (former recruiting targets) having great seasons that would be a big help:

Zach Cleveland - Zach Cleveland Career Stats - NCAAM - ESPN

Nick Martinelli - Nick Martinelli - Northwestern Wildcats Forward - ESPN

Liberty is a middle of the pack CUSA team this year. It's possible that Zach could move after this year. I'd love to bring him home. His stats are similar to Foster his junior year at Monmouth except he has a higher FG% and more assists. It seems like he must facilitate a lot of the offense with 4.1 APG. Apparently is not much of a shooter outside the paint.

I don't see Martinelli leaving Northwestern with the year they are having. It looks like Collins will live to see another day. He will probably start for them next year, definitely trending up.

Martinelli has really showed pretty well. I'm surprised, he looks very smooth.

 

[redbirds2000]

2 other Illinois natives (former recruiting targets) having great seasons that would be a big help:

Zach Cleveland - Zach Cleveland Career Stats - NCAAM - ESPN

Nick Martinelli - Nick Martinelli - Northwestern Wildcats Forward - ESPN

Liberty is a middle of the pack CUSA team this year. It's possible that Zach could move after this year. I'd love to bring him home. His stats are similar to Foster his junior year at Monmouth except he has a higher FG% and more assists. It seems like he must facilitate a lot of the offense with 4.1 APG. Apparently is not much of a shooter outside the paint.

I don't see Martinelli leaving Northwestern with the year they are having. It looks like Collins will live to see another day. He will probably start for them next year, definitely trending up.

Get both of the Cleveland brothers. With their mom being a former Redbird player, HOF, and alumna I'm sure a good connection has been made already.

 

[cpacmel]

I don't see Martinelli leaving Northwestern with the year they are having. It looks like Collins will live to see another day. He will probably start for them next year, definitely trending up.

Live another day? NW is on the doorstep of going dancing in back-to-back seasons. That's never happened. NW has only danced two times ever, both under Collins.

He just signed an extension last summer, thru 2028.

 

[Dmills]

Live another day? NW is on the doorstep of going dancing in back-to-back seasons. That's never happened. NW has only danced two times ever, both under Collins.

He just signed an extension last summer, thru 2028.

Fair point. His seat was warm 2 years ago. I'm behind the times. Didn't realize he got an extension.

 

[Hrtnfldhse]

These last 3 games, I say we've been creeping for sure. In Foster and Kinziger we have 2 centerpieces. Hopefully Walker and Pence progress and we take our leap next year to contend for top 4 and stay out of Thursday

 

[ScoreboardDotRace]