ISU Enrollment

Bird Friend

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I'll reiterate again. I like Brock. I liked Dan and still do. Still some Donewald people on this forum. But this is kind of surprising to read this from you.

Programs do NOT serve the coaches. Coaches are there to serve the program. When that gets mixed up you have major problems.

Perhaps things are a wee bit different in the big time, like Coach K. But not at dear old ISU.
Winning a few championships might have helped Coach K with his career longevity . . . just saying . . .
 

Humdinger

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BirdFriend you are the kookoo in a cuckoo clock. He only won 5. Good gravy, man. Went to a Final Four, more or less, once every 3 years. I think he could've done better than that. Yep. Kookoo. What art thou talking about???
 

NashvilleBirdFan

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WIU is actively shuttering/mothballing buildings left and right - including entire dorms - in order to afford repairs to others. Not sure how you recover from where they’re at.

And this is having a huge impact on athletics and will continue to do, loss of students will equal loss of athletic department revenue thru less student fees and fewer fans.

In 2016 the ISU athletic revenue was about $26.5M, in 2021 it was $30.2M, an increase of 14%
In 2016 the NIU athletic revenue was about $28.5M, in 2021 it was $17.1M, a decrease of 40%
In 2016 the SIU athletic revenue was about $23.2M, in 2021 it was $14.7M, a decrease of 36%
I didn't look up WIU or EIU, but I am guessing similar declines from 2016-2021

Just think about those numbers for a minute and the long term implications at the directionals.. I have no idea how NIU competes fairly well in FBS football or if they can sustain it going forward.
 

Virginia Redbird

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And this is having a huge impact on athletics and will continue to do, loss of students will equal loss of athletic department revenue thru less student fees and fewer fans.

In 2016 the ISU athletic revenue was about $26.5M, in 2021 it was $30.2M, an increase of 14%
In 2016 the NIU athletic revenue was about $28.5M, in 2021 it was $17.1M, a decrease of 40%
In 2016 the SIU athletic revenue was about $23.2M, in 2021 it was $14.7M, a decrease of 36%
I didn't look up WIU or EIU, but I am guessing similar declines from 2016-2021

Just think about those numbers for a minute and the long term implications at the directionals.. I have no idea how NIU competes fairly well in FBS football or if they can sustain it going forward.
I did a quick look at Wikipedia (maybe correct and maybe not) and outside of Football, only Men's soccer has won a MAC championship on the men's side since 2013 when Baseball won the conference. On the women's side, Gymnastics won the MAC in 2019 and Volleyball in 2016. Across the board, the success of the NIU sports program minus football is not very impressive. I would guess the vast majority of investment is going to the football team and what is let divided up among the other sports, male and female. NIU went FBS (or at the time University Division) in 1969. There were quite a few championships from other Huskie teams in the 90s but that seems to dry up moving into the new century.

 

Bird Friend

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BirdFriend you are the kookoo in a cuckoo clock. He only won 5. Good gravy, man. Went to a Final Four, more or less, once every 3 years. I think he could've done better than that. Yep. Kookoo. What art thou talking about???
old timey baseball conan obrien GIF by Team Coco
 

NashvilleBirdFan

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I did a quick look at Wikipedia (maybe correct and maybe not) and outside of Football, only Men's soccer has won a MAC championship on the men's side since 2013 when Baseball won the conference. On the women's side, Gymnastics won the MAC in 2019 and Volleyball in 2016. Across the board, the success of the NIU sports program minus football is not very impressive. I would guess the vast majority of investment is going to the football team and what is let divided up among the other sports, male and female. NIU went FBS (or at the time University Division) in 1969. There were quite a few championships from other Huskie teams in the 90s but that seems to dry up moving into the new century.


At NIU, basketball draws about 1000 a game, their baseball field would be average in most high school conferences... and not a knock on them, they are doing what they can with very limited funds.. I just don't see how any of the directional schools dig out of this mess.. I have a feeling NIU is admitting borderline students from CPS to help enrollment, but they are not college ready, which would explain them having solid freshmen numbers while overall enrollment continues to drop.
 

Birgs

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NashvilleBirdFan, you hit every nail on the head. SIU-E maybe.
...oh and I'm a CPS Charter teacher coming back from an NIU campus visit for juniors. DeKalb. Sorry, Mazo, DeKalb is danky.
 
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NashvilleBirdFan

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Been messing with this a little more today, there are only two MAC schools with more athletic dept revenue than Illinois St.. Buffalo at $36M and Miami at $32M, ISU at $30M... the lowest being NIU at $17M...

Why again is FBS such a crazy idea for ISU???? And I am not saying we should go that route, only that its not a crazy idea and mostly like achievable.
 

Redbirdwarrior

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At NIU, basketball draws about 1000 a game, their baseball field would be average in most high school conferences... and not a knock on them, they are doing what they can with very limited funds.. I just don't see how any of the directional schools dig out of this mess.. I have a feeling NIU is admitting borderline students from CPS to help enrollment, but they are not college ready, which would explain them having solid freshmen numbers while overall enrollment continues to drop.
Most colleges now are admitting students that aren't college ready. That is why many colleges junked the idea of standardized tests. Having ACT and SAT scores being public give the admissions offices a certain standard they have to adhere to. If you drop those scores, suddenly a 2.8 GPA student who would have gotten a 19 on the ACT but happened to have like 8 after school activities is admitted to your school. It is a national enrollment crisis, really. Since 2019, enrollment across the country is down 1,250,000 students. Assuming the average student in that list would have paid about $10,000 a year in tuition, higher ed is down $12,500,000,000 since 2019. And colleges are panicking, including schools like EIU, WIU and NIU, which- to be fair- used to be the 2nd or 3rd most difficult public school in Illinois to get admitted to, especially the business program. NIU has gone down hill faster. I think, than any college in the state.
 

TBS_20

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Most colleges now are admitting students that aren't college ready. That is why many colleges junked the idea of standardized tests. Having ACT and SAT scores being public give the admissions offices a certain standard they have to adhere to. If you drop those scores, suddenly a 2.8 GPA student who would have gotten a 19 on the ACT but happened to have like 8 after school activities is admitted to your school. It is a national enrollment crisis, really. Since 2019, enrollment across the country is down 1,250,000 students. Assuming the average student in that list would have paid about $10,000 a year in tuition, higher ed is down $12,500,000,000 since 2019. And colleges are panicking, including schools like EIU, WIU and NIU, which- to be fair- used to be the 2nd or 3rd most difficult public school in Illinois to get admitted to, especially the business program. NIU has gone down hill faster. I think, than any college in the state.
Siu is hurting, as well
 

NashvilleBirdFan

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Most colleges now are admitting students that aren't college ready. That is why many colleges junked the idea of standardized tests. Having ACT and SAT scores being public give the admissions offices a certain standard they have to adhere to. If you drop those scores, suddenly a 2.8 GPA student who would have gotten a 19 on the ACT but happened to have like 8 after school activities is admitted to your school. It is a national enrollment crisis, really. Since 2019, enrollment across the country is down 1,250,000 students. Assuming the average student in that list would have paid about $10,000 a year in tuition, higher ed is down $12,500,000,000 since 2019. And colleges are panicking, including schools like EIU, WIU and NIU, which- to be fair- used to be the 2nd or 3rd most difficult public school in Illinois to get admitted to, especially the business program. NIU has gone down hill faster. I think, than any college in the state.

Absolutely, when I was in college around 1990 I think its fair to say NIU was a better overall school than ISU, their business and accounting was as good as the bottom tier Big Ten schools.. Now its a shadow of itself and has been clearly passed by ISU.. its amazing how quickly that school has tanked.. They always felt superior to ISU because of FBS football and they had engineering and law schools and we did not.. That list has now gone from 3 to 2 with us adding engineering ..
 

Redbirdwarrior

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They are facing the problem as the other directional schools, plus SIU-E...
SIU is an interesting case study. They were, for a long time, by far the easiest directional school in the state to get into. In high school, our councilors always required us to apply to SIU-C as a backup school because they knew anyone with a pulse would be admitted and then they could boast that to the state board of ed. "XYZ% of our students were accepted to a 4-year college." I think the running joke is still that SIU is the party school of Illinois. The fact that they have a law school and a medical school and ISU doesn't boggles my mind.
 

isuquinndog

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Been messing with this a little more today, there are only two MAC schools with more athletic dept revenue than Illinois St.. Buffalo at $36M and Miami at $32M, ISU at $30M... the lowest being NIU at $17M...

Why again is FBS such a crazy idea for ISU???? And I am not saying we should go that route, only that its not a crazy idea and mostly like achievable.
How is FBS helping any of those schools right now financially? Or enrollment wise?
 

NashvilleBirdFan

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How is FBS helping any of those schools right now financially? Or enrollment wise?

I think there would be some prestige if we would be in a bowl game and playing on ESPN , so there is some marketing in the concept.

To me, the problem isn't the money as we would be fine, the issue is that all of the FBS moves (MAC, C-USA) would be a downgrade in basketball and the other Olympic sports..
 

Redbirdwarrior

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I think there would be some prestige if we would be in a bowl game and playing on ESPN , so there is some marketing in the concept.

To me, the problem isn't the money as we would be fine, the issue is that all of the FBS moves (MAC, C-USA) would be a downgrade in basketball and the other Olympic sports..

Honestly, low end mid majors who don't have like a recent...ish Orange Bowl or Fiesta Bowl to fall back on are probably not helped a ton by FBS.

Think of schools like Eastern Michigan, Ball State, Kent State, UAB, Southern Miss, Middle TN, FIU and so on. I suspect if you are going to those schools, you probably aren't influenced by the football team and are probably just happy that they have one.
 

NashvilleBirdFan

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Honestly, low end mid majors who don't have like a recent...ish Orange Bowl or Fiesta Bowl to fall back on are probably not helped a ton by FBS.

Think of schools like Eastern Michigan, Ball State, Kent State, UAB, Southern Miss, Middle TN, FIU and so on. I suspect if you are going to those schools, you probably aren't influenced by the football team and are probably just happy that they have one.

I agree.. but what happens when Missouri St heads to FBS?? What if UNI does??? That weakens the Missouri Valley even more, at some point we are going to outgrow the MVC
 

ISUBU

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More and more high school kids want to stay close to home for college. This has greatly helped UIC and SIU-E as they are close to or in the middle of very large populations. WIU, EIU, SIUC especially are challenged, as they are further from the population bases in Illinois. NIU should be helped by this - not sure why they're struggling so much.

This is a trend nationally. Generally, only very elite liberal arts schools and the mega state universities are less impacted by this. So in addition to affordability, a decline in 18 year olds, alternatives in the job market, etc., this is just one more thing.
 

MadBird

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SIU is an interesting case study. They were, for a long time, by far the easiest directional school in the state to get into. In high school, our councilors always required us to apply to SIU-C as a backup school because they knew anyone with a pulse would be admitted and then they could boast that to the state board of ed. "XYZ% of our students were accepted to a 4-year college." I think the running joke is still that SIU is the party school of Illinois. The fact that they have a law school and a medical school and ISU doesn't boggles my mind.
SIU got Law School and Med School as a "regional" resource for southern Illinois. Central Illinois, you can go to Champaign. Northern Ill, DeKalb. Things at SIU might have been different, might become different, if Edwardsville was then what it is now.

All this talk of the directionals being in trouble, well, as far as their futures, to me isn't taking into consideration their role as governmental resources. My gut tells me as long as cities and towns and "citizens" need access to resources - learning, expertise, culture, etc. - the directionals are going to be around. Maybe not flourishing, but at least around. We'll see.
 

NashvilleBirdFan

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Not to kick NIU while they are down... and while I think these programs are a great benefit to some students, its no wonder they have 2400 freshmen (ISU close to 4000) when over 1000 of the 2400 are coming for free. They are now to the point they are taking in anyone with a pulse to bolster enrollment.. and if being honest, its why their retention rate will be so low. I work at a Metro Nashville high school and MTSU and TSU have similar standards where they ignore your ACT score if you have a 3.0, and we have a bunch of kids go to those schools each year despite having a 13 or 14 on their ACT, they last a year and realize they are not college caliber students.. NIU seems to be recruiting CPS and Rockford public school students, and the rigor is a far cry from what it is at most suburban schools.. but a 3.8 at Julian counts the same as a 3.8 at Naperville Central.. But kudos to NIU for being creative and progressive, what they are doing to a great thing for at least some of those 1000 freshmen that qualified for a tuition waiver..

  • Recognizing that students’ hard work in high school is reflected in their grades, NIU became one of the nation’s first public universities to announce test-free admissions and merit scholarship processes.
  • Eliminating the use of standardized tests in merit scholarship eligibility served to make the process more equitable and diversify NIU’s pool of scholarship applicants and recipients. Of 1,910 freshman merit scholarship recipients this fall, 67% are students of color.
  • The Rockford Promise Program at NIU, now in its second year, guarantees that tuition and general fee costs will be met by gift aid such as grants and scholarships for up to four years at NIU. The university welcomed 133 new freshmen who qualified for the program, up from 96 last fall.
  • This year NIU and other state schools entered formal partnerships with Hope Chicago, an innovative scholarship program committed to investing $1 billion over the next decade in postsecondary scholarships to Chicago Public School (CPS) students and their parents. The university welcomed 61 Hope Scholars this fall.
  • NIU’s Huskie Pledge program, funded by the State of Illinois’ AIM HIGH Program, continues to ensure that qualifying Illinois students from lower-income households can attend college with no tuition or general fees for their first year and potentially beyond. This fall, 987 incoming freshmen were eligible and did not have to pay out-of-pocket expenses for tuition and general fees.
  • NIU also eliminated undergraduate application fees and joined the Common App in August 2020 to reduce barriers for students in their pursuit of higher education. The Common App gives students a way to apply to NIU and multiple other colleges with one online application. The university saw a 55% increase this fall in the total number of freshman applicants over 2020.
 
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