In-state athletic budgets..

[Hamdonger]

I know we cant afford FBS. And I think the department might be better off financially it it were non scholly.

Agree with the first sentence, Coach. Second sentence, I agree the athletic dept would be better off financially (in present times) but I SURE don't think the football program would be better off from an overall perspective.

 

[isuquinndog]

This is from April, '18 but I think Western Kentucky is an interesting case study since they were in the MVFC.

Despite pretty decent success in football at the FBS level (lots of bowl games), they keep having to make cuts in the athletic department.

https://www.wbko.com/content/sports/BISHOP--WKU-athletics-forges-ahead-despite-major-budget-concerns-478532063.html

 

[Total Red]

This is from April, '18 but I think Western Kentucky is an interesting case study since they were in the MVFC.

Despite pretty decent success in football at the FBS level (lots of bowl games), they keep having to make cuts in the athletic department.

https://www.wbko.com/content/sports/BISHOP--WKU-athletics-forges-ahead-despite-major-budget-concerns-478532063.html

Good find. There's also this more recent article from June '19. Not pretty.
https://www.bgdailynews.com/news/wku-faculty-question-athletics-funding-as-university-takes-deep-cuts/article_f2dbe30b-b4ea-5ebf-aea4-7b88bace34d7.html

 

[TIMMY]

I know we cant afford FBS. And I think the department might be better off financially it it were non scholly.

Agree with the first sentence, Coach. Second sentence, I agree the athletic dept would be better off financially (in present times) but I SURE don't think the football program would be better off from an overall perspective.

I think there's a core group of about 4000 that show up even in severe conditions. (50 and the threat of rain.) The rest wouldn't know the difference and like TR said will leave at halftime anyway.

 

[isuquinndog]

This is from April, '18 but I think Western Kentucky is an interesting case study since they were in the MVFC.

Despite pretty decent success in football at the FBS level (lots of bowl games), they keep having to make cuts in the athletic department.

https://www.wbko.com/content/sports/BISHOP--WKU-athletics-forges-ahead-despite-major-budget-concerns-478532063.html

Good find. There's also this more recent article from June '19. Not pretty.
https://www.bgdailynews.com/news/wku-faculty-question-athletics-funding-as-university-takes-deep-cuts/article_f2dbe30b-b4ea-5ebf-aea4-7b88bace34d7.html

So the whole school is having financial issues. And, people are calling out athletics which is starting to happen every where. I hear comments about who the highest paid state employee in a lot of states are. Usually, it's the football coach of the lead school like a Saban or Harbaugh. People are going to start pushing back against things like that.

 

[Hamdonger]

So the whole school is having financial issues. And, people are calling out athletics which is starting to happen every where. I hear comments about who the highest paid state employee in a lot of states are. Usually, it's the football coach of the lead school like a Saban or Harbaugh. People are going to start pushing back against things like that.

Yeah probably. But the validity in their argument will come down to whether the coach/team is creating positive cash flow for the program&school. With these media contracts I'm curious if very many big programs are actually losing money? I don't know the answer to that.

***Just did some quick research on our old reliable completely trustworthy non-intrusive friend, The Internet...came across this stat: Almost 40 college athletic programs have expenses over 100M dollars. Holy hambone. My pea brain is has a hard time (see I can't even type straight) wrapping itself around that number. Another one: UofTexas football cleared 92M! Couple 2 or 3 dozen others cleared over 25M.

Pro-FBS'ers, have at it! But show us a way to get in that gosh-forsaken club - for me doesn't see the YellowBrickRoad.

 

[TheTruth]

I think there's a core group of about 4000 that show up even in severe conditions. (50 and the threat of rain.) The rest wouldn't know the difference and like TR said will leave at halftime anyway.

Good point, 1-AA football does not lend itself to having fans emotionally/financially invest in the program. If the university half-asses their commitment to the program, the majority of potential fans will invariably follow suit.

 

[StLRedbird]

The only realistic path to FBS for our alma mater is sustained success at the FCS level including annual deep runs in the playoffs. If that statement is true, then the biggest impact that FBS proponents can have short term is to be a loud butt in a Hancock seat several Saturdays every fall. I do find it interesting that the FBS independent ranks are growing.

Army
BYU
Liberty
New Mexico St
Notre Dame
UMass
UConn

 

[Jon99]

This is from April, '18 but I think Western Kentucky is an interesting case study since they were in the MVFC.

Despite pretty decent success in football at the FBS level (lots of bowl games), they keep having to make cuts in the athletic department.

https://www.wbko.com/content/sports/BISHOP--WKU-athletics-forges-ahead-despite-major-budget-concerns-478532063.html

Our athletic departments budget is already more than theirs...

 

[TIMMY]

The only realistic path to FBS for our alma mater is sustained success at the FCS level including annual deep runs in the playoffs. If that statement is true, then the biggest impact that FBS proponents can have short term is to be a loud butt in a Hancock seat several Saturdays every fall. I do find it interesting that the FBS independent ranks are growing.

Army
BYU
Liberty
New Mexico St
Notre Dame
UMass
UConn

UConn's in the American but for the others it's gotta be tough putting a schedule together. I would think there's some crossovers between these schools. Exception being ND.

 

[Jon99]

The only realistic path to FBS for our alma mater is sustained success at the FCS level including annual deep runs in the playoffs. If that statement is true, then the biggest impact that FBS proponents can have short term is to be a loud butt in a Hancock seat several Saturdays every fall. I do find it interesting that the FBS independent ranks are growing.

Army
BYU
Liberty
New Mexico St
Notre Dame
UMass
UConn

UConn's in the American but for the others it's gotta be tough putting a schedule together. I would think there's some crossovers between these schools. Exception being ND.

But they are leaving the AAC for the Big East, so football will be indy

 

[isuquinndog]

TV deals are where the money is in football. Otherwise, I just don't see how football makes a ton of money for a school. Illinois is awful at football, but their B10 network money is RIDICULOUS.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

You going to tell me fricken NIU can do it and we can't??

It's not a matter of whether we can do it it's a matter of whether we want to. The FBS issue gets raised on the football board frequently. It's the one place it can find some traction. We have a few dozen regular posters and a rotating few hundred that drop in to look. Amongst the RBF.net football group you can say that FBS football is bigger and better and should therefore become a project for the university to work on and you'll get some agreement. Try taking it up with all other parts of Redbird Nation. (Redbird Nation - current students, alumni, faculty, staff, administration and residents of B/N or other communities with a modest interest in the affairs of the Illinois State University). Ask all of those people if they think it's important for the university to invest time, effort and money into pursuing FBS football. I think you'll find that for most of them it is a low to non-existent priority.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT FBS FOOTBALL WE USE IT AS A DEFINITION OF SUCCESS THAT JUST ISN'T VALID WHEN IT COMES TO THE INTERESTS AND CONCERNS OF THE MAJORITY OF REDBIRD NATION.

And then we sit around and wonder why it has never happened and we blame past administrations that have consistently reflected the collective desires (or lack thereof) of their constituencies.

You know NIU never asked their students if they wanted FBS football. Their football tickets are a forced sale embedded in the athletic fee inside the general fee. I wonder if they had a referendum on whether they would like to continue with FBS football or have their fees lowered if they wouldn't opt for lower fees.

Is NIU spending that much more on football than we are?

Looking at the financial results for NIU and ISU athletics it looks like it could "cost" NIU a fair amount of athletic revenue if they moved down to a two conference model of FCS football and all other sports similar to ISU. NIU and their students subsidize 60% ($15,947,000 subsidy in raw dollars) of their athletics while ISU subsidizes 69% ($ 19,459,000. Erase the subsidy amount and it APPEARS NIU athletics brings in more revenue than ISU athletics. It would be nice to know what is in the "other" category for NIU and ISU.

Tickets sales
NIU . $952,604
ISU . $1,843,845

Contributions
NIU . $2,013,521
ISU $2,668,986

Rights Licensing
NIU . $4,664,041
ISU . $3,783,817

Other
NIU . $2,379,452
ISU . $388,851

So many people refer to butts in the seats as the measure of success (esp financial success) for athletics. That measure died last century yet many still reference it. Rights licensing and eye balls watching the games (regardless of where the eye balls are located) vs butts in the seats is the big revenue driver. Even for big time athletic programs like Wisconsin (with a power football program in a massive stadium, a power basketball program in a massive stadium, very successful hockey, women's volleyball...etc) ticket sales are much small than rights licensing.

If ISU is going to continue throw money at football than ISU needs to get to a football conference where there is money received via TV revenue/right licensing. The challenge is there are limited options for ISU. Unfortunately, except for the few rabid fans of an FCS program (which is an insignificant on a national basis) nobody cares about FCS football. Try going to a bar in Chicago where college football games are being played on a Saturday and ask someone about NDSU football. You will be amazed how anonymous they are as respects to college football and those that have heard of them tend to think they are D2.

 

[StLRedbird]

TV deals are where the money is in football. Otherwise, I just don't see how football makes a ton of money for a school. Illinois is awful at football, but their B10 network money is RIDICULOUS.

FBS@FBS guarantee games now routinely pay north of $1MM and appreciating rapidly. One way to look at that is it's a backdoor to that P5 mountain o' cash. This article is two years old. The money has grown appreciably since.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spo...worth-175-million-guarantees-ncaa/1131488002/

Let's say you can generate $3MM from two FBS guarantee games. That pays for scholarships and coaches. We're already playing one FBS guarantee game a year for a third of what we'd get if we were FBS. And we'd get an extra game most years. Use the other 10 games to try and get into a bowl game, all of the proceeds of which you can keep. I think the math works. But you have to have the facilities before you can do it.

 

[Total Red]

So many people refer to butts in the seats at a measure of success (esp financial success) for athletics. That measure died last century yet many still reference it.

Overstatement - not dead. Every AD out there will tell you that butts in the seats is still important. Where do you think those big TV and licensing deals come from? They're looking for conferences with large fanbases and butts in the seats is the proof when they sit down to talk at the negotiation table. The Big 10 has a lucrative TV deal because they have schools in place like Michigan, Ohio St. and Pennsylvania that are solid population states and hotbeds of college football. They can pack 75,000-100,000 or more into the football stadium and still command large viewing audiences beyond that. Not that it would ever happen but if Penn St. started drawing 15,000 for a home game the whole situation would be viewed differently.

 

[Redbirds100]

Look at this NDSU game, it's Parents weekend and NDSU Fanbase is going to show up, so we have a sellout. But how many of the parents know or care who NDSU is? We could be playing a division III school and they would show up(not me). At halftime the seats will empty no matter the score, and if there is a sprinkle, time to go home(get back to your TV). Then NDSU fans will stay and equal the ISU fans in the stands.
So the fan base is not there or educated like a big ten school.....

I am excited for this NDSU BISON GAME!!! JUDGEMENT DAY FOR THE REDBIRDS!!!!

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

There's far more activity on the basketball board. I'll the bet the average student here is more likely to correctly identify Joe Hein as a former basketball player than to correctly identify Spencer Schnell as a former football player. Hein has definitely rec'd more mentions on RBF. Maybe you could go back even further but I blame it all on Doug Collins and then the winning teams that followed.

I believe it was Matt Hein...

Well it could have been either but you're right I was aiming for Matt Hein. That's what I get for trying to come up with a basketball name during football season.

So many people refer to butts in the seats at a measure of success (esp financial success) for athletics. That measure died last century yet many still reference it.

Overstatement - not dead. Every AD out there will tell you that butts in the seats is still important. Where do you think those big TV and licensing deals come from? They're looking for conferences with large fanbases and butts in the seats is the proof when they sit down to talk at the negotiation table. The Big 10 has a lucrative TV deal because they have schools in place like Michigan, Ohio St. and Pennsylvania that are solid population states and hotbeds of college football. They can pack 75,000-100,000 or more into the football stadium and still command a large viewing audiences beyond that. Not that it would ever happen but if Penn St. started drawing 15,000 for a home game the whole situation would be viewed differently.

My dead reference was intended to mean that attendance is no longer the most important metric for athletic departments as it was in the past. The metric that is now most watched and analyzed is total revenue. Yes attendance is still important however I disagree with your comment that stadium overflow is what drives tv/rights licensing revenue. Those people are only a small fraction of the millions that sometimes watch the big marque games.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Look at this NDSU game, it's Parents weekend and NDSU Fanbase is going to show up, so we have a sellout. But how many of the parents know or care who NDSU is? We could be playing a division III school and they would show up(not me). At halftime the seats will empty no matter the score, and if there is a sprinkle, time to go home(get back to your TV). Then NDSU fans will stay and equal the ISU fans in the stands.
So the fan base is not there or educated like a big ten school.....

I am excited for this NDSU BISON GAME!!! JUDGEMENT DAY FOR THE REDBIRDS!!!!

You should be excited for the NDSU game if you are a fan of ISU football! It would be awesome if ISU got the W.

 

[Redbirds100]

A win against the Bison would be very Awesome..........., and bump ISU Birds in the STATS POLL.
Even a close Loss, but I didnt say that, Think Home playoff games!!!
And SDSU & UNI are great looking games to be played............

 

[Virginia Redbird]

I keep hearing about the weather and fans (using that term loosely) not showing up if the weather gets bad or leaving early. I went to the SDSU game a few years ago and the weather for an October game was as pretty as you could have in Illinois. The Birds were not expected to win that game and it was a good game they ended up winning. I was amazed at the exodus of fans at halftime. Like ants leaving an anthill. Granted that was the year the Cubs were in the series and I think they were playing but still Hancock emptied out quite a bit. I think the fan base and "butts in the seats" probably has an impact but mostly in the perspective of fan demand. If you have a huge stadium and sell out and have good TV ratings as well then you have solid fan demand and I would expect that to translate to TV money. I would point to Notre Dame, yeah I know the Irish are a unique example. The Irish sell out every game and have a huge demand and good ratings. They would not have their own TV contract if this was not the case. If you cant sell out Hancock and have meager TV demands where would the interest be from broadcasters? Interesting about the levels of spending on athletics among schools but I would be more interested in just what is spent on football for comparison. My own opinion is that the Athletic Department does not market the football program all that much. Being out of state, I find it difficult at times to keep up with what is going on outside of this forum. I have connected to the social media sites and the official website but most of the info I get comes from this forum and the Pantagraph. Maybe they focus marketing in the Central Illinois area and I understand that. Probably just me being so far away. I
One question, if the Birds had an indoor stadium like NDSU and climate control, do you think there would be more fans in the seats or that they would stay the whole game? My guess is no it really would not make that much of a difference. We, of course, will never know since ISU can't even get an indoor practice facility built but ... that is another thread altogether!
Regardless, I will be watching the game next week from Virginia! Wish I could make it to Hancock! I would stay the whole game!