Illinois State to the MAC?

[ISUBird]

Actually, Murray State fans love the MVC. Just go to their board and ask them. I read it often.

It's interesting that every D-I school's administration uses the same logic Murray State used in moving up to the MVC. I can't find more than one instance of a school using your logic and staying in a bottom half league so they have an easier chance. Why is that? Do you know more than all of these presidents and administrators at schools across Division I?

Yeah, during realignment I was there often and it seemed that everyone was excited and upset they didn't get in when Valpo was added. They are also happy to be in the MVFC. The MVC is a better basketball conference than the OVC so that's important.

 

[redbirds2000]

Actually, Murray State fans love the MVC. Just go to their board and ask them. I read it often.

It's interesting that every D-I school's administration uses the same logic Murray State used in moving up to the MVC. I can't find more than one instance of a school using your logic and staying in a bottom half league so they have an easier chance. Why is that? Do you know more than all of these presidents and administrators at schools across Division I?

Let's check back with Murray in 10 years when they have maybe 1 trip to the NCAA and their football team just gets destroyed every, single, year. I never claimed to know more than anyone. I want NCAA appearances! Period. If a football upgrade leads to NCAA appearances for basketball in a weaker bball conference, so be it. At this point, I really don't care how we get there. Just get there.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Strongly agree with this. Our situation in the Valley - half football-playing publics and half no-football privates + UIC - means that our "all sports" conference and Illinois St are misaligned. Every time the Valley expands, this split is on full display. I'm willing to take a step down in basketball to get into a conference where all schools are likeminded. The MVC was the right choice in 1980, but in 2024 football is the undisputed king. It's time to recognize that and put ourselves into a better overall situation.

BINGO!! Having football in a different conference than the remainder of the athletic teams is a big flaw. Hurts rivalries, fan interest, negotiations on scheduling, marketing, expenses …etc.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a little issue of $5,000,000 that needs to be paid to the ncaa in order to move up?

That is less expensive than expanding the stadium which was a prior requirement.

How about we manage our coach/staff expenses to the level of our conference mates and we could pay the 5 mil off in a couple of years …btw our coaches salaries do not appear to be the issue as appears we are in the salary range of other conf coaches. Looks like we spend millions more a year on other administration expenses.

 

[GOP_Redbird]

I'm merely correcting a lie that someone was putting out, for the sake of keeping the discussion factually accurate. Instead of people lying about things to push their agenda.

As for games on national television, you have to factor in that MVC basketball has more linear tv exposure than MAC basketball.

Found Kurt Pegler’s account

 

[StLRedbird]

BINGO!! Having football in a different conference than the remainder of the athletic teams is a big flaw. Hurts rivalries, fan interest, negotiations on scheduling, marketing, expenses …etc.

Just between us gals, if MoST needs a dance partner to get over the hump w CUSA, I'd still say it's a better overall situation for ISU than what we have today But the MACs a better, safer bet. I think most agree we're better off at FBS, but find the options we have hard to swallow. Simple fact is the guys were discussing are the guys that'll take someone straight out of FCS. These are our choices. I believe either of them is a better overall situation for ISU than the status quo.

I do feel shame for having doubted Pedon there for a moment. Maybe it's the whiskey.

 

[cpacmel]

True at the vast majority of D-I schools - Yes
True at Illinois State - No

There's a few ways to look at this though.

For example, Coach Pedon makes more than twice as much as what Coach Spack makes. And Pedon has been a head coach for 2 years now vs. 15 years for Spack.

But in the last 15 years or so, the 2 most expensive endeavors taken by ISU Athletics were both for Football. 20 Million for Hancock remodel and 11.5 for the bubble. Now the the bubble, you could try and argue that it's for more sports than football. But lets be honest, its mostly for football. If we were truly serious about football it would have been brick and mortar and had washrooms!

I do enjoy these discussions but I would caution people. MONEY. It's takes a ton of it. Our students are already taken to task with good sized athletic fees, more so than other schools. And then we double down on the students by making them buy tickets and or join Red Alert to go watch games. I don't think that is going to last forever. Sooner or later, students aren't going to stand for that one way or other. I also don't think Akron is going to draw more people to a game than say Youngstown State. Will NIU bring out more people than say SIU? It's hard to say.

I do find it interesting that outside of UCF.........no one has really used the MAC as a stepping stone.

 

[Dmills]

I think any conference can be a stepping stone theoretically. The MVC had a stable membership from 1996-2013. Then Creighton left. Loyola is the only school that has used it as a stepping stone this millennium, and they had to catch lightning in a bottle for it to happen.

 

[DaveBird10]

I wonder how Murray State feels about joining the "stronger" MVC. I'm guessing 15+ NCAA appearances and 5 or 6 wins in the tournament while in the OVC? They will NEVER duplicate that in the Valley. Would you rather be 4th or 5th every year in the Valley or have your named called 15 times on selection Sunday? I also noticed that on Kent State's Elite 8 banner that they had an asterisk. *If we would have been in the MVC, we wouldn't have this banner! Imagine if we had an Elite 8 appearance in whatever conference? That topic would be at the top of the message board for 50 years!
You can't make a run if you are not in the dance. The "strength" of the MVC has done nothing for ISU. We missed out on capitalizing on the multiple bid years of the Valley. 25 years and counting...But YAY, MVC! I guess it was fun cheering on Wichita and Loyola.

I bet Wichita State wishes they were still in the MVC. MVC has a a hire NET then the AAC and Wichita has dropped to 157 in NET. They are now 4-12 in conference and 11-17 overall but moving to the AAC really helped them out, huh. They literally went from big fish in a small pond to just now nothing.

 

[TBS_20]

I bet Wichita State wishes they were still in the MVC. MVC has a a hire NET then the AAC and Wichita has dropped to 157 in NET. They are now 4-12 in conference and 11-17 overall but moving to the AAC really helped them out, huh. They literally went from big fish in a small pond to just now nothing.

the money is most likely worth it

 

[DBird]

There's a few ways to look at this though.

For example, Coach Pedon makes more than twice as much as what Coach Spack makes. And Pedon has been a head coach for 2 years now vs. 15 years for Spack.

But in the last 15 years or so, the 2 most expensive endeavors taken by ISU Athletics were both for Football. 20 Million for Hancock remodel and 11.5 for the bubble. Now the the bubble, you could try and argue that it's for more sports than football. But lets be honest, its mostly for football. If we were truly serious about football it would have been brick and mortar and had washrooms!

I do enjoy these discussions but I would caution people. MONEY. It's takes a ton of it. Our students are already taken to task with good sized athletic fees, more so than other schools. And then we double down on the students by making them buy tickets and or join Red Alert to go watch games. I don't think that is going to last forever. Sooner or later, students aren't going to stand for that one way or other. I also don't think Akron is going to draw more people to a game than say Youngstown State. Will NIU bring out more people than say SIU? It's hard to say.

I do find it interesting that outside of UCF.........no one has really used the MAC as a stepping stone.

NIU s

I bet Wichita State wishes they were still in the MVC. MVC has a a hire NET then the AAC and Wichita has dropped to 157 in NET. They are now 4-12 in conference and 11-17 overall but moving to the AAC really helped them out, huh. They literally went from big fish in a small pond to just now nothing.

Agree!!

 

[ISUBird]

This makes me want to move up even less.

CFP circulating new 14-team model with 3 spots for Big Ten/SEC, 2 for ACC/Big 12

One of the potential models for a new College Football Playoff may be emerging.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[jwa123]

With the size of the ISU athletic budget the MAC is a stepping stone to where? The bystander exclaimed we’ll expand the size of the budget!!! Then I ask how?

 

[StLRedbird]

There's a few ways to look at this though.

For example, Coach Pedon makes more than twice as much as what Coach Spack makes. And Pedon has been a head coach for 2 years now vs. 15 years for Spack.

But in the last 15 years or so, the 2 most expensive endeavors taken by ISU Athletics were both for Football. 20 Million for Hancock remodel and 11.5 for the bubble. Now the the bubble, you could try and argue that it's for more sports than football. But lets be honest, its mostly for football. If we were truly serious about football it would have been brick and mortar and had washrooms!

I do enjoy these discussions but I would caution people. MONEY. It's takes a ton of it. Our students are already taken to task with good sized athletic fees, more so than other schools. And then we double down on the students by making them buy tickets and or join Red Alert to go watch games. I don't think that is going to last forever. Sooner or later, students aren't going to stand for that one way or other. I also don't think Akron is going to draw more people to a game than say Youngstown State. Will NIU bring out more people than say SIU? It's hard to say.

I do find it interesting that outside of UCF.........no one has really used the MAC as a stepping stone.

We'd be middle of the pack in the MAC with our budget TODAY. It is reasonable to expect our revenue - and expense - lines to go up after joining, so we'd be in the top half of that conference.

Edit: The situation with CUSA is much different. Today, were in the bottom quarter, probably rising to bottom third after joining due to added revenue. The MAC is really our ONLY choice (I don't think the Sunbelt improves our overall situation and other FBS confs won't take FCS). What are we waiting for? A perfect risk-free scenario? That'll never exist. Time to rip the bandaid.

 

[redbirds2000]

I bet Wichita State wishes they were still in the MVC. MVC has a a hire NET then the AAC and Wichita has dropped to 157 in NET. They are now 4-12 in conference and 11-17 overall but moving to the AAC really helped them out, huh. They literally went from big fish in a small pond to just now nothing.

So...essentially what we have been in MVC for the past 25 years?

 

[Sanantoniobird]

We'd be middle of the pack in the MAC with our budget TODAY. It is reasonable to expect our revenue - and expense - lines to go up after joining, so we'd be in the top half of that conference.

Edit: The situation with CUSA is much different. Today, were in the bottom quarter, probably rising to bottom third after joining due to added revenue. The MAC is really our ONLY choice (I don't think the Sunbelt improves our overall situation and other FBS confs won't take FCS). What are we waiting for? A perfect risk-free scenario? That'll never exist. Time to rip the bandaid.

I'm pro-MVC/FCS, but this made sense to me. I actually think this is about as risk-free as it gets. Good cluster of schools that is comparable travel-wise, FBS exposure; in all fairness it's a lateral move...arguably better football though worse basketball makes it kind of a wash. I feel like it's happening again, like whatever happened when ISU didn't go Div I-A. Eventually, FCS is going to be 3rd tier football (your opinion, if that's bad or good). I LOVE having a clear, less biased champion each year. However, the fortune is in the Bowls.

 

[cpacmel]

We'd be middle of the pack in the MAC with our budget TODAY. It is reasonable to expect our revenue - and expense - lines to go up after joining, so we'd be in the top half of that conference.

22 additional scholarships for football alone. Additional coaches.

Title 9 ramifications for that would be what?

Adding another women's sport or would it possibly have to be 2 new women's sports?

So the cost of 40 or so full-ride scholarships yearly, but new coaches for football and the new staffs for 1-2 more women's teams, plus all that goes with that (Travel, equipment, facilities, etc)

The sports we would be adding would be traditional non-revenue-making sports (Lacrosse, field hockey, ice hockey, rugby)

Just pointing out possible expenses. I've always been okay with a move to FBS. Just know it takes a ton of MONEY.

 

[Total Red]

There's a few ways to look at this though.

For example, Coach Pedon makes more than twice as much as what Coach Spack makes. And Pedon has been a head coach for 2 years now vs. 15 years for Spack.

But in the last 15 years or so, the 2 most expensive endeavors taken by ISU Athletics were both for Football. 20 Million for Hancock remodel and 11.5 for the bubble. Now the the bubble, you could try and argue that it's for more sports than football. But lets be honest, its mostly for football. If we were truly serious about football it would have been brick and mortar and had washrooms!

I do enjoy these discussions but I would caution people. MONEY. It's takes a ton of it. Our students are already taken to task with good sized athletic fees, more so than other schools. And then we double down on the students by making them buy tickets and or join Red Alert to go watch games. I don't think that is going to last forever. Sooner or later, students aren't going to stand for that one way or other. I also don't think Akron is going to draw more people to a game than say Youngstown State. Will NIU bring out more people than say SIU? It's hard to say.

I do find it interesting that outside of UCF.........no one has really used the MAC as a stepping stone.

Good take on our coaching salaries favoring basketball. I was shocked when I learned that former Michigan St. football coach Mel Tucker was pulling down 9.5 million (10-year deal for 95 mil) while long-time basketball coach Tom Izzo inked a deal at 6 million per year. Tucker had 1 winning season in 4 full years as a football HC. Izzo is working on his 28th straight winning season. Izzo has won the National Championship in addition to 4 other Final Four appearances.

I look at the facilities a little differently. In the late 80's Illinois State was falling way behind in facility enhancements. Both FB and BB needed new homes. Basketball and Redbird Arena came first (1989). Redbird Football had to wait 24 years (2013) for a major Hancock upgrade. It wasn't just the Dakota schools we were trailing. Youngstown St. - Stambaugh Stadium and Missouri State - Plaster Stadium were both far superior to Hancock before the remodeling. SIU got a new stadium in 2010. The 2013 remodeling of Hancock was a way overdue catch up that lifted us to the upper FCS level. When you fall behind in a certain sport and then finally catch up after your peers passed you by years ago it's a good thing, but it doesn't exactly point to football as the driver of your athletics program.

You can contrast our approach with Northern Illinois which is a football-first school. NIU's Huskie stadium had a major renovation in 1982 when it went from 20,000 to 30,000. They built a permanent IPF in 2013.
Meanwhile their basketball team languished in a 6,000 seat Field House until 2002.

 

[Total Red]

We'd be middle of the pack in the MAC with our budget TODAY.

Just know it takes a ton of MONEY.

Our overall budget may be in line with the MAC, but our football facilities would need a lot of work to be competitive with even lower level FBS. Mel is right for many reasons. We would need a ton of money.

Ball State team meeting room. We don't have anything like this.


Ball State IPF - Permanent structure
Ball State FB stadium capacity 22,500 (Hancock 13,391)

 

[StLRedbird]

22 additional scholarships for football alone. Additional coaches.

Title 9 ramifications for that would be what?

Adding another women's sport or would it possibly have to be 2 new women's sports?

So the cost of 40 or so full-ride scholarships yearly, but new coaches for football and the new staffs for 1-2 more women's teams, plus all that goes with that (Travel, equipment, facilities, etc)

The sports we would be adding would be traditional non-revenue-making sports (Lacrosse, field hockey, ice hockey, rugby)

Just pointing out possible expenses. I've always been okay with a move to FBS. Just know it takes a ton of MONEY.

That is pretty thorough accounting of why the expense line goes up. I'd add bigger football coaching salaries, too.

But we cannot dismiss the goose to the revenue line. I think there's two main sources of that: conference money and bigger payouts from the non-con schedule. Playing those shitty Tues/Wed games brought TV money. But even playing on Saturdays there's real money for FBS games out there. Add our share of the bowl payouts and we'll be getting a bump in the $ coming from the conference. Scheduling non-cons when you're FBS brings a whole new level of riches. One buy game from one of the FBS blue bloods can net you 2 million nowadays. FBS sacrificial lambs are a prized commodity, I guess. Of course, we'd be paying out $300k to have one of our former conference mates be our sacrificial lamb.

I realize there's about zero chance of this happening, but that doesn't mean there there's a rational argument against it. If there is I don't see it. FCS is not just an obstacle, it's THE obstacle. Simple risk aversion is #2.