Illinois State to the MAC?

[Total Red]

I understand football is what drives decisions.

True at the vast majority of D-I schools - Yes
True at Illinois State - No

 

[BirdGrad2011]

True at the vast majority of D-I schools - Yes
True at Illinois State - No

That kind of thinking has set ISU athletics and academics back so far.

 

[StLRedbird]

I said don't do anything now because the MAC doesn't move the needle and when the shakeup does occur, move then.

Teams that go to the MAC stay there usually. It's not like the AAC C-USA, or somewhat the Sun Belt where it is used as leverage.

When the shakeup happens we have to already be at the FBS level or we'll sitting there on the outside looking in again saying if only we had...

 

[GOP_Redbird]

MAC would get ISU on weeknight ESPN/ESPN2 -- A REAL BROADCAST -- instead of Saturday AM ESPN+ with 1 camera.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

MAC would get ISU on weeknight ESPN/ESPN2 -- A REAL BROADCAST -- instead of Saturday AM ESPN+ with 1 camera.

And in the new EA College Football video game. Matt Brown says teams are dying to get into it with hopes kids just start to notice their universities. We are missing the boat on so much.

 

[Seven]

MAC would get ISU on weeknight ESPN/ESPN2 -- A REAL BROADCAST -- instead of Saturday AM ESPN+ with 1 camera.

The MAC didn't have a single regular season game on ESPN this year. There were only 7 on ESPN2 -- which averages out to 1 per team with 14 teams.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

The MAC didn't have a single regular season game on ESPN this year. There were only 7 on ESPN2 -- which averages out to 1 per team with 14 teams.

How many MVFC games not counting playoffs were on anything but ESPN+?

 

[Total Red]

That kind of thinking has set ISU athletics and academics back so far.

Ok get mad at our fanbase because it is more interested in basketball. Lot of good that will do.
It's a fact and so we deal with it.

One of the biggest misconceptions about Redbird Athletics is that the Athletic Dept. has chosen the path when they've really just been responding to the interests of our own fans.

 

[Seven]

When the shakeup happens we have to already be at the FBS level or we'll sitting there on the outside looking in again saying if only we had...

There is zero evidence for low G5 leagues like the MAC/CUSA being on the right side of a split over upper mid-major BB leagues like the A10/MVC/WCC. The B1G/SEC have zero incentive to include low G5 leagues at the expense of upper mid-major BB leagues.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

Ok get mad at our fanbase because it is more interested in basketball. Lot of good that will do.
It's a fact and so we deal with it.

One of the biggest misconceptions about Redbird Athletics is that the Athletic Dept. has chosen the path when they've really just been responding to the interests of our own fans.

Decisions made 50-70 years ago were not made with the “fans interests” they were made from a lack of vision and held back the university. There is zero reason a state school with ~20k undergrad is just now adding a college of engineering in 2024. ISU has done a lot well and a lot wrong.

 

[Seven]

How many MVFC games not counting playoffs were on anything but ESPN+?

I'm merely correcting a lie that someone was putting out, for the sake of keeping the discussion factually accurate. Instead of people lying about things to push their agenda.

As for games on national television, you have to factor in that MVC basketball has more linear tv exposure than MAC basketball.

 

[StLRedbird]

There is zero evidence for low G5 leagues like the MAC/CUSA being on the right side of a split over upper mid-major BB leagues like the A10/MVC/WCC. The B1G/SEC have zero incentive to include low G5 leagues at the expense of upper mid-major BB leagues.

I think we're talking about apples and oranges. I don't think the level our basketball program is at is germane. The level our football program is at determines what paths are even possible. New world out there

 

[Total Red]

Decisions made 50-70 years ago were not made with the “fans interests” they were made from a lack of vision and held back the university. There is zero reason a state school with ~20k undergrad is just now adding a college of engineering in 2024. ISU has done a lot well and a lot wrong.

Since this is an athletics website, I was talking about athletics. Illinois State currently competes in the Missouri Valley Conference. We joined the MVC in 1981 after competing as a D-I Independent. The move was touted as helping all of ILL ST. athletics, but the primary motivation was to find a good conference for men's basketball. Indiana St./Larry Bird had played in the National Championship game in 1979, and so it was felt that the Valley would be a good home for basketball, the sport most of our fans were interested in. It also allowed us to further the Bradley rivalry.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

I'm merely correcting a lie that someone was putting out, for the sake of keeping the discussion factually accurate. Instead of people lying about things to push their agenda.

As for games on national television, you have to factor in that MVC basketball has more linear tv exposure than MAC basketball.

I thought we were talking football only with those numbers. MVC basketball probably has a bit of a boost over MAC basketball but that’s never been disputed or argued against.

 

[fourthandshort]

My thinking is very much along these lines. In MAC football, we'd have rivalries with old rivals C.Michigan, Ball State, NIU, but really you'd have to go back quite a ways to remember we were in a conference with these guys. Or remember ISU's big upset win over ranked Akron back in the last century, in the 70's. You'd have to really know your football to know Miami is the "cradle of coaches". ETC. I have long contended for the average fan, especially the average current student there's no functional difference between the MVFC Dakota rivals, SIU, Mo.State and Bowling Green, Western Michigan, Kent State, etc. Or Appalachian State, South Alabama, Sam Houston State or any of those you wanna bring up. On the negative side to me are the weeknight home games.

I'd be much more interested in bringing the Dakotas into the MVC for all sports, cementing the relationship with them and UNI and Mo.State and SIU for future planning. Make that relationship solid and go forward into the great unknown of college football together. You've got arguably the best FCS conference, keep it together whatever the future holds. Two division MVC allowing the non-football schools to stay in the other sports.

I have no idea if this is at all viable or practical or anything ... but I like this idea the best. Then work our way into the G5 as a football conference. I think forming a full sport conference will make for better rivalries, and the conference would make far more sense regionally than most these days. It could be sustainable and a path to FBS for football. MVFC as a conference has a great brand name recognition ... we should try to build off of this block of programs.

 

[ISUBird]

That kind of thinking has set ISU athletics and academics back so far.

If that were the case how come ISU is ranked higher than NIU and most of the MAC in the USNWR?

 

[BirdGrad2011]

If that were the case how come ISU is ranked higher than NIU and most of the MAC in the USNWR?

Now do the rest of the MVC vs MAC. Say SIU or UNI. It ain’t close.

 

[Seven]

Now do the rest of the MVC vs MAC. Say SIU or UNI. It ain’t close.

Most of the MVC's academically stronger schools are private schools, some of whom are placed in a different ranking system by USNWR. USNWR is not an apples-to-apples comparison because it excludes some of the MVC's higher ranked schools.

Times/WSJ puts all schools under the same umbrella, and the MVC is ahead of the MAC:

Wall Street Journal/Times Higher Education College Rankings 2022

The Wall Street Journal/Times Higher Education College Rankings, based on 15 performance indicators, is designed to answer the questions that matter most to students and their families: How likely am I to graduate, pay off my loans and get a good job? Does the college have plenty of resources to...

www.timeshighereducation.com

(MVC) 91 UIC
(MAC) 124 Buffalo
(MVC) 136 Drake
(MAC) 141 UMass
(MVC) 200 Bradley
(MVC) 223 Valparaiso
(MAC) 227 Miami
(MVC) 242 SIU
(MVC) 284 Evansville

401-500 Schools
(MVC) 401 Belmont
(MVC) 401 ISU
(MAC) 401 Ohio
(MAC) 401 Toledo
(MAC) 401 NIU

501-600 Schools
(MAC) 501 Ball St
(MAC) 501 WMU
(MVC) 501 UNI

>600 Schools
(MVC) Missouri St
(MVC) Murray St
(MVC) Indiana St
(MAC) CMU
(MAC) EMU
(MAC) BGSU
(MAC) Akron
(MAC) Kent St

 

[redbirds2000]

If those teams were in the MVC they wouldn't be doing as well as they did in most of their tournament appearance seasons.

All of the tournament appearances of the teams you listed were as part of the MAC. The conference goes back to the late 1940s.

Akron - 2021-22 13 seed 1st round

Ball State 1999-00 11 seed 1st round

Bowling Green - 1967-68 1st round (55 years between tournaments is tied for 4th longest between tournament appearances)

Buffalo - 2018-19 6 seed 2nd round

Central Michigan - 2020-21 12 seed 1st round

Eastern Michigan - 1997-98 13 seed 1st round

Kent State - 2022-23 13 seed 1st round

Miami - 2006-07 14 seed 1st round

Northen Illinois - 1995-96 14 seed 1st round

Ohio - 2020-21 13 seed 2nd round

Toledo - 1979-80 9 seed 1st round

Western Michigan - 2013-14 14 seed 1st round

UMass - 2013-14 6 seed 1st round

I wonder how Murray State feels about joining the "stronger" MVC. I'm guessing 15+ NCAA appearances and 5 or 6 wins in the tournament while in the OVC? They will NEVER duplicate that in the Valley. Would you rather be 4th or 5th every year in the Valley or have your named called 15 times on selection Sunday? I also noticed that on Kent State's Elite 8 banner that they had an asterisk. *If we would have been in the MVC, we wouldn't have this banner! Imagine if we had an Elite 8 appearance in whatever conference? That topic would be at the top of the message board for 50 years!
You can't make a run if you are not in the dance. The "strength" of the MVC has done nothing for ISU. We missed out on capitalizing on the multiple bid years of the Valley. 25 years and counting...But YAY, MVC! I guess it was fun cheering on Wichita and Loyola.

 

[Seven]

I wonder how Murray State feels about joining the "stronger" MVC. I'm guessing 15+ NCAA appearances and 5 or 6 wins in the tournament while in the OVC? They will NEVER duplicate that in the Valley. Would you rather be 4th or 5th every year in the Valley or have your named called 15 times on selection Sunday? I also noticed that on Kent State's Elite 8 banner that they had an asterisk. *If we would have been in the MVC, we wouldn't have this banner! Imagine if we had an Elite 8 appearance in whatever conference? That topic would be at the top of the message board for 50 years!
You can't make a run in you are not in the dance. The "strength" of the MVC has done nothing for ISU. We missed out on capitalizing on the multiple bid years of the Valley. 25 years and counting...But YAY, MVC! I guess it was fun cheering on Wichita and Loyola.

Actually, Murray State fans love the MVC. Just go to their board and ask them. I read it often.

It's interesting that every D-I school's administration uses the same logic Murray State used in moving up to the MVC. I can't find more than one instance of a school using your logic and staying in a bottom half league so they have an easier chance. Why is that? Do you know more than all of these presidents and administrators at schools across Division I?