Game Production - has degraded

[Redbirdmike]

Agree Quinn!!! Dude what are you smoking calling ANY other MVC program dog crap? Reality check - WE are the “dog crap”
program in the MVC. WE haven’t been to the tournament since 1998. Get a grip and start looking at OUR history in the past QUARTER of a century! Throw stones at other programs that wipe their asses with us? Not too smart. It’s posters like that that make our board look like a bunch of morons. Most of our people on here are few, but very knowledgeable and passionate.

Hopefully that changes with a winning program this year. Go Birds!!

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Murray St wasn't and isn't "dog crap". They have had NBA players drafted more recently and been to the NCAA tournament more recently than we have. We sure throw stones at other programs around here. We are the "dog crap" of the MVC right now.

Dog crap from the metrics that matter for conf mates and financial value…enrollment size (small), community size(small), academic/national ranking(weak), fan drawing power (weak).

Yes, Murray basketball hit it right with a couple of non-academic qualifiers for most universities but their program has not had any sustained success.

Illinois State University is now associated with Murray State which is why it is disappointing to me to see Murray added to the MVC.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Agree Quinn!!! Dude what are you smoking calling ANY other MVC program dog crap? Reality check - WE are the “dog crap”
program in the MVC. WE haven’t been to the tournament since 1998. Get a grip and start looking at OUR history in the past QUARTER of a century! Throw stones at other programs that wipe their asses with us? Not too smart. It’s posters like that that make our board look like a bunch of morons. Most of our people on here are few, but very knowledgeable and passionate.

Hopefully that changes with a winning program this year. Go Birds!!

You compare value of conf mates based on basketball wins via a weak conference … I look at value of conference mates more from the impact of the university side and potential market draw. From my perspective Murray is a weak addition. Also from my perspective UIC, like Loyola was, is a nice addition.

 

[MadBird]

When there is a genius among us, no sense arguing.

But, just for the record and the rest of you, Murray St. has been to the dance 8 times this century (4 more if you go back to 1995), couple NIT's, 12 seasons with 20+ wins. "Sustained success"? On the other hand, the mighty UIC Flames have been to the dance twice, and once to the NIT, with 4 20+ win seasons in the same time frame.

I spose next we'll get an argument that Chicago State should be a conference mate??

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Murray St wasn't and isn't "dog crap". They have had NBA players drafted more recently and been to the NCAA tournament more recently than we have. We sure throw stones at other programs around here. We are the "dog crap" of the MVC right now.

…let me restate the wording to reflect my intended comment … “replaced by Murray State which is a dog crap addition” . the point being the addition to MVC is dog crap not Murray state being dog crap

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

When there is a genius among us, no sense arguing.

But, just for the record and the rest of you, Murray St. has been to the dance 8 times this century (4 more if you go back to 1995), couple NIT's, 12 seasons with 20+ wins. "Sustained success"? On the other hand, the mighty UIC Flames have been to the dance twice, and once to the NIT, with 4 20+ win seasons in the same time frame.

I spose next we'll get an argument that Chicago State should be a conference mate??

Go see my comments on why Murray is a weak addition. It would not surprise me to see you support Chicago State to the MVC.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

When there is a genius among us, no sense arguing.

But, just for the record and the rest of you, Murray St. has been to the dance 8 times this century (4 more if you go back to 1995), couple NIT's, 12 seasons with 20+ wins. "Sustained success"? On the other hand, the mighty UIC Flames have been to the dance twice, and once to the NIT, with 4 20+ win seasons in the same time frame.

I spose next we'll get an argument that Chicago State should be a conference mate??

So please inform me with your facts as to why Murray State joining the MVC is a beneficial thing for Illinois State University.

 

[Aggie]

Murray State has a very good reputation in mid major basketball. Just because it is not a school from a big city does not mean it cannot have a good basketball program. Go take a look at Gonzaga. Murray is a nice school, nice community.

 

[Redbirdmike]

You know what is a beneficial thing for Illinois State University?……WINNING BASKETBALL GAMES! Not throwing stones at other programs. Let’s worry about ourselves. Winning games will solve a lot of problems university-wide.

1. Community support & pride
2. Butts in seats
3. Recruiting
4. Student involvement
5. Marketing and advertising dollars
6. NIL money
7. Increased national exposure
8. Increased enrollment
9. Better facilities
10. Benefits for all other school sports teams
11. Local business economic benefits
12. Increased revenue across the board
13. Better university leadership options

Go Birds!!

 

[Phantom]

You know what is a beneficial thing for Illinois State University?……WINNING BASKETBALL GAMES! Not throwing stones at other programs. Let’s worry about ourselves. Winning games will solve a lot of problems university-wide.

1. Community support & pride
2. Butts in seats
3. Recruiting
4. Student involvement
5. Marketing and advertising dollars
6. NIL money
7. Increased national exposure
8. Increased enrollment
9. Better facilities
10. Benefits for all other school sports teams
11. Local business economic benefits
12. Increased revenue across the board
13. Better university leadership options

Go Birds!!

14. People just having FUN at the arena again. It's been Milner II since 2019.

 

[Redbird Alum 2004]

I will say at the Kentucky game the time outs were filled with the band playing and an impressive light show. The fireworks during intros was pretty cool. The cheerleaders were light years ahead of ours. Our fan knowledge is far superior though.

 

[Redbird Alum 2004]

New video by Kevin Pologruto

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Reggie Redbird]

1.) The addition of Paul Kabbes is a good one. His big focus right now is finding people who will make a difference in marketing, development, production, and ticketing and then find a way to keep them. If you aren’t tracking the staff directory, you may not have noticed that Brennan, Mulhauser, and/or the work-life balance of college athletics decimated that roster. The people who were executing on build relationships, fundraise, sell tickets, and develop media interest are largely gone and departed in a very short time period. if you look at Danny Bugg (marketing), you will find someone passionate about ISU and having success in his role. The problem is you need several more people like him with the ability to execute their ideas.

2.) Winning is the most important part of the equation we are talking about. If you’re playing winning basketball, especially exciting winning basketball, it will draw crowds. Look at our WBB team. The team excelled under Robin - success, personable players, strong relationships in the community. That started to decline under Glance, and it bottomed out under Barb Smith. Her losing and horrible contract decimated the program. She seemed to be a nice person, but it was clear before she even came here that she couldn’t run a program. Enter KG: tremendous coach and recruiter, has a vision, and is building relationships in the community. We seem to have that in Pedon, but he needs to win. It doesn’t really matter how good our marketing is, our band is, our cheerleaders are, etc. if the program isn’t winning. I haven’t left a WBB game at RBA the past few years where I didn’t think we had a chance to win.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

1.) The addition of Paul Kabbes is a good one. His big focus right now is finding people who will make a difference in marketing, development, production, and ticketing and then find a way to keep them. If you aren’t tracking the staff directory, you may not have noticed that Brennan, Mulhauser, and/or the work-life balance of college athletics decimated that roster. The people who were executing on build relationships, fundraise, sell tickets, and develop media interest are largely gone and departed in a very short time period. if you look at Danny Bugg (marketing), you will find someone passionate about ISU and having success in his role. The problem is you need several more people like him with the ability to execute their ideas.

2.) Winning is the most important part of the equation we are talking about. If you’re playing winning basketball, especially exciting winning basketball, it will draw crowds. Look at our WBB team. The team excelled under Robin - success, personable players, strong relationships in the community. That started to decline under Glance, and it bottomed out under Barb Smith. Her losing and horrible contract decimated the program. She seemed to be a nice person, but it was clear before she even came here that she couldn’t run a program. Enter KG: tremendous coach and recruiter, has a vision, and is building relationships in the community. We seem to have that in Pedon, but he needs to win. It doesn’t really matter how good our marketing is, our band is, our cheerleaders are, etc. if the program isn’t winning. I haven’t left a WBB game at RBA the past few years where I didn’t think we had a chance to win.

Reggie, you mention loss of quality staff as respects impact on fundraising and operations. I looked at several MVC public schools athletic department expenses (siu, Indy state, mo state, northern iowa) some other similar revenue size athletic department programs (Ndsu, Montana state, New Mexico State, ohio) as well as NIU and compared coaches/staff salaries as well as “donations” which includes fundraising. For salary expenses we were generally anywhere from 500,000k higher to as much as 4,000,000 higher with ISU most often being plus $1,500,000 to $ 3,000,000 annually. For donations we were ranked towards the bottom of the group historically (includes eliminating the 2022 year and 3,000,000 in phantom donations). Maybe the staff changes will be a good thing? It would be interesting to hear your perspective.

 

[Reggie Redbird]

Reggie, you mention loss of quality staff as respects impact on fundraising and operations. I looked at several MVC public schools athletic department expenses (siu, Indy state, mo state, northern iowa) some other similar revenue size athletic department programs (Ndsu, Montana state, New Mexico State, ohio) as well as NIU and compared coaches/staff salaries as well as “donations” which includes fundraising. For salary expenses we were generally anywhere from 500,000k higher to as much as 4,000,000 higher with ISU most often being plus $1,500,000 to $ 3,000,000 annually. For donations we were ranked towards the bottom of the group historically (includes eliminating the 2022 year and 3,000,000 in phantom donations). Maybe the staff changes will be a good thing? It would be interesting to hear your perspective.

There are a lot of factors going into an explanation, but here are the first ones I thought of. This is not to say that people were effective or not but explain our higher salary expenses.

1.) What goes into that salary figure? Does it include paying out people still on the books. For example, did we pay out vacation time to people who departed, buyouts to terminated folks, etc. If it includes Muller’s buyout, that would severely spike that.

If it includes allocations for retirement/benefits, that will be a lot higher for ISU and SIU employees than those in other states.

Using Indiana State as a comparison for #2:

2.) How many sports do you have? How many coaches/staff do you have in those sports?

InSU has 5 men’s sports and 8 women’s sports. That alone causes a huge difference because we have 7 and 10 sports. The coaching and support salary expenses (coaches, admin, supports staff, training, strength/conditioning). Just to note, SIU has 7 and 8 sports.

On top of that, we invest in our women’s sports that schools like Indiana State, Bradley, and even SIU don’t, including higher coaching salaries. Just look at what we put into VB. This has also includes having support staff members some of those other teams may not have.

Using an old example: Barb Smith made $225k+ to finish where she did vs Tanya Warren at UNI who I believe was around $140-150k and competing for championships at the time.

3.) Have any of these programs outsourced operations related to sponsorship sales (like we have with Learfield) or fundraising? That provides a certain level of funding , which was likely adjusted under Covid. You need less staff, but you aren’t capitalizing on success if your sponsorships could net more than your contract.

4.) What were we getting from all the people we had? Our last few admins in those top development roles were not producers. Looking at someone like Sean Johnson or Derek Stark, those folks are in a different bucket vs the higher-level development staff they reported to. Looking at the baseball indoor, that was Sean Johnson spearheading that campaign.

5.) Do we have positions that other schools don’t have? If those are non-revenue generating positions, they’ll spike our payroll. Looking at SIU, we have several more athletic administrators and administrator roles they don’t have.

6.) Tenure: we have people with longer tenure in many positions. 10-15-20-25+ years. That’s not to say it is a bad thing, but it will often lead to higher salaries when someone with 30+ years at ISU is compared to someone with 10 or less years of experience at these other schools.

Just to note, for a school like NDSU, they do not considerably outspend us on salaries for FB, but I would venture we outspend them for most other programs. NDSU has 7 and 7 sports. That’s going to cause a HUGE difference in expenses versus ours.

 

[Redbird60451]

New video by Kevin Pologruto

photos.app.goo.gl

Would fireworks like that set our roof on fire? LOL Just messing with you.

 

[Redbird Alum 2004]

Would fireworks like that set our roof on fire? LOL Just messing with you.

Better question, since it needs to be replaced and if that were to happen would insurance cover the cost of the new one?

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

There are a lot of factors going into an explanation, but here are the first ones I thought of. This is not to say that people were effective or not but explain our higher salary expenses.

1.) What goes into that salary figure? Does it include paying out people still on the books. For example, did we pay out vacation time to people who departed, buyouts to terminated folks, etc. If it includes Muller’s buyout, that would severely spike that.

If it includes allocations for retirement/benefits, that will be a lot higher for ISU and SIU employees than those in other states.

Using Indiana State as a comparison for #2:

2.) How many sports do you have? How many coaches/staff do you have in those sports?

InSU has 5 men’s sports and 8 women’s sports. That alone causes a huge difference because we have 7 and 10 sports. The coaching and support salary expenses (coaches, admin, supports staff, training, strength/conditioning). Just to note, SIU has 7 and 8 sports.

On top of that, we invest in our women’s sports that schools like Indiana State, Bradley, and even SIU don’t, including higher coaching salaries. Just look at what we put into VB. This has also includes having support staff members some of those other teams may not have.

Using an old example: Barb Smith made $225k+ to finish where she did vs Tanya Warren at UNI who I believe was around $140-150k and competing for championships at the time.

3.) Have any of these programs outsourced operations related to sponsorship sales (like we have with Learfield) or fundraising? That provides a certain level of funding , which was likely adjusted under Covid. You need less staff, but you aren’t capitalizing on success if your sponsorships could net more than your contract.

4.) What were we getting from all the people we had? Our last few admins in those top development roles were not producers. Looking at someone like Sean Johnson or Derek Stark, those folks are in a different bucket vs the higher-level development staff they reported to. Looking at the baseball indoor, that was Sean Johnson spearheading that campaign.

5.) Do we have positions that other schools don’t have? If those are non-revenue generating positions, they’ll spike our payroll. Looking at SIU, we have several more athletic administrators and administrator roles they don’t have.

6.) Tenure: we have people with longer tenure in many positions. 10-15-20-25+ years. That’s not to say it is a bad thing, but it will often lead to higher salaries when someone with 30+ years at ISU is compared to someone with 10 or less years of experience at these other schools.

Just to note, for a school like NDSU, they do not considerably outspend us on salaries for FB, but I would venture we outspend them for most other programs. NDSU has 7 and 7 sports. That’s going to cause a HUGE difference in expenses versus ours.

Thank you for the thoughtful and thorough response. I appreciate it. It seems as though we are spending plenty of money relative to some other quasi-peer programs but in different ways. I wish we could get more bang for our buck but that is obviously easier said than done.

The one comparison that really pains me is UNI. We spend 50% more annually on athletics then UNI does but in this century they have a better overall football and men's hoop program. That is tough to swallow especially since we are more impressive on the university side as well.

 

[Hamdonger]

Better question, since it needs to be replaced and if that were to happen would insurance cover the cost of the new one?

I've been occasionally chirping about the roof since I joined the board. When Redbird was built, it was estimated to be a 25 year roof. We're at 35+ yrs, on borrowed time, and that baby will NOT be cheap. I'm hoping/believing (haha) athletics has put some money aside for an eventual roof replacement. Given the dwindled attendance, any of that assumed money was probably re-appropriated. If there was any money at all.

 

[Hamdonger]

Better question, since it needs to be replaced and if that were to happen would insurance cover the cost of the new one?

Let's have a beer riot and shoot Roman candles at the roof. But who am I kidding. Beer riot. Yeah, like that'll happen at ISU.