Anyone Remember When

[GhostofMBA]

The days when after a loss there would be 30 page message threads by noon the following day? Look at that NKU thread after that loss. Apathy has set in and now starting to tighten the grip on the program.

Because the game last night was on ESPN3, I watched it. Perused the board while watching and wow, the posting activity is way down.

I could more than likely post a few more thoughts on Muller, Larry, and the general direction the program and AD department is going, but apathy has hit this fan base. This is actually worse than what I predicted after Muller was hired and the hiring fiasco that took play. Chibird owes me a lunch as I still have never lost a lunch bet.

 

[bombay]

Primarily the three stooges repetitive sobbing.

 

[ricohill]

The days when after a loss there would be 30 page message threads by noon the following day? Look at that NKU thread after that loss. Apathy has set in and now starting to tighten the grip on the program.

Because the game last night was on ESPN3, I watched it. Perused the board while watching and wow, the posting activity is way down.

I could more than likely post a few more thoughts on Muller, Larry, and the general direction the program and AD department is going, but apathy has hit this fan base. This is actually worse than what I predicted after Muller was hired and the hiring fiasco that took play. Chibird owes me a lunch as I still have never lost a lunch bet.

There is no hope. No big games. No big wins. No NCAA Tournament. Our style of play is awful. The atmosphere in the Arena is awful. The admins ran people off with the seating change. Ticket prices are higher and the product is worse. No student involvement since the athletic department took over Red Alert. It's such a mess I don't know how you can even begin to fix it with out bringing in new people and new ideas.

 

[Birdswin]

Completely agree Rico - pathetic leadership. Nice people, but the performance is lacking. Actions and results, speak louder than words and a sense of bewilderment.

 

[Phantom]

The apathy is also fueled by too many 'ALMOSTS' in the last, say, 15 years. During the Richardson era, there was still the echo of the Stallings years that people were clinging to and allowed some cushion for, but that fell like a lead balloon toward the end. And then...

- Some hype came back during Moser's 2nd year. We found ourselves at 16-5 at one point and then completely crashed in the final month. Deflating.
- Major buzz existed during Jank's first two years. Legit star power on the roster. 25+ wins. Attendance skyrocketed to 90s levels. 3 sellouts in '09...averaged 8800/game in Valley play. Back in the title game both years - lost both, and missed an at-large due to awful scheduling. Deflating.
- Great belief when DM took over. Beloved as a player. "If anyone can get us there, it's him," was the narrative. Consistent, winning seasons and overall competitive - great! Several title game appearances but no wins. Couldn't get any closer than '17 and yet some bad losses & a blowout in the title game killed an at-large chance. Deflating.

Basically, folks are tired of not only the 22 year drought, but having plenty of ramped-up instances where it feels like it's FINALLY going to happen - only to have the ship sink at the last minute faster than the Edmund Fitzgerald. It's been a tease. It's showing we are just an 'almost good enough' program. It's frustrating beyond words at this point.

 

[Redbird28]

The apathy is also fueled by too many 'ALMOSTS' in the last, say, 15 years. During the Richardson era, there was still the echo of the Stallings years that people were clinging to and allowed some cushion for, but that fell like a lead balloon toward the end. And then...

- Some hype came back during Moser's 2nd year. We found ourselves at 16-5 at one point and then completely crashed in the final month. Deflating.
- Major buzz existed during Jank's first two years. Legit star power on the roster. 25+ wins. Attendance skyrocketed to 90s levels. 3 sellouts in '09...averaged 8800/game in Valley play. Back in the title game both years - lost both, and missed an at-large due to awful scheduling. Deflating.
- Great belief when DM took over. Beloved as a player. "If anyone could get us there, it's him," was the narrative. Consistent, winning seasons and overall competitive - great! Several title game appearances but wins. Couldn't get any closer than '17 and yet some bad losses & a blowout in the title game killed an at-large chance. Deflating.

Basically, folks are tired of not only the 22 year drought, but having plenty of ramped-up instances where it feels like it's FINALLY going to happen - only to have the ship sink at the last minute faster than the Edmund Fitzgerald. It's been a tease. It's showing we are just an almost good enough program. It's frustrating beyond words at this point.

This is definitely some of it from the pure basketball standpoint. You did a great job of articulating that side of the apathy.

I think the other thing at play from a pure message board posting standpoint is that many people who may have posted in the past, and probably some who have thought about posting but don't, just don't feel like having the same discussion over and over and over in every thread like what happens so often now with the same group of posters. It gets tiresome, and can lead to message board apathy.

By no means am I saying that we all have to share the same viewpoint, so don't take it that way. I'm just saying it wears you down reading the same things over and over so why waste the time getting into a conversation when you know the road it's going to go down at the end of the day.

 

[Baltimore Bird]

It is really sad when you lose to Northern Kentucky by 15. I did not even know that was a real school. We are not at the low of 5 and 23 in 1991 ish, but heading that way. That team was the #1 seed the next year in a very bad MVC. Like many Redbird teams, they lost in the championship game. I don't see this group being capable of that. I am very disappointed in our team and its overall direction. Next year will be "we are very young."

Most other sports are doing well, so I am not on the impeach Lyons/Dietz program. However, I have run out of patience with Dan. I loved him as a player and I really loved the hire when it happened. It worked for some years, but is not working now.

Generally by now I have booked my flight to STL for the MVC. Not this year. I still hope to come as I love Friday in STL, but I won't come to watch just the other teams. I am hoping for a #6 seed, so I can watch games all day and our Birds on Friday night.

Signed: Disappointed and pissed off in Baltimore. At least I have the RAVENS!

 

[DannyCooksey]

We are a very mediocre at best, boring and nondescript program in all phases and aspects. The only way it changes is either getting lucky with a recruit that somehow ends up here (Like a Ja Morant type kid) or getting lucky with a new coach and coaching staff that can have sustained success for enough years to have built in successors when that head coach leaves for greener pastures like the run SIU had with Weber/Painter/Lowery.

I wouldn't bet on either scenario happening. Muller is entrenched here because of his incredibly ridiculous undeserved salary and years on his deal. He's going nowhere. I don't even know how many years he's been here. Is it 9 years now? There hasn't been a transcendent recruit come to ISU since Rico Hill or maybe Tarise Bryson A true program changing recruit. I guess maybe Osiris could be considered that. Seems like a lifetime ago.

The time of Illinois State being a respected national program is long gone. Will it ever return to that level? I wouldn't bet $10 on it when i can use that to get a decent lunch at Chipotle.

 

[TheTruth]

Completely agree Rico - pathetic leadership. Nice people, but the performance is lacking. Actions and results, speak louder than words and a sense of bewilderment.

Agreed, nice people but they’re in over their heads. A complete purge would be beneficial as it’s important to completely eradicate the small time mentality that has permeated this athletic dept for far too long.

 

[DWRedbird]

The apathy is also fueled by too many 'ALMOSTS' in the last, say, 15 years. During the Richardson era, there was still the echo of the Stallings years that people were clinging to and allowed some cushion for, but that fell like a lead balloon toward the end. And then...

- Some hype came back during Moser's 2nd year. We found ourselves at 16-5 at one point and then completely crashed in the final month. Deflating.
- Major buzz existed during Jank's first two years. Legit star power on the roster. 25+ wins. Attendance skyrocketed to 90s levels. 3 sellouts in '09...averaged 8800/game in Valley play. Back in the title game both years - lost both, and missed an at-large due to awful scheduling. Deflating.
- Great belief when DM took over. Beloved as a player. "If anyone could get us there, it's him," was the narrative. Consistent, winning seasons and overall competitive - great! Several title game appearances but wins. Couldn't get any closer than '17 and yet some bad losses & a blowout in the title game killed an at-large chance. Deflating.

Basically, folks are tired of not only the 22 year drought, but having plenty of ramped-up instances where it feels like it's FINALLY going to happen - only to have the ship sink at the last minute faster than the Edmund Fitzgerald. It's been a tease. It's showing we are just an almost good enough program. It's frustrating beyond words at this point.

This is definitely some of it from the pure basketball standpoint. You did a great job of articulating that side of the apathy.

I think the other thing at play from a pure message board posting standpoint is that many people who may have posted in the past, and probably some who have thought about posting but don't, just don't feel like having the same discussion over and over and over in every thread like what happens so often now with the same group of posters. It gets tiresome, and can lead to message board apathy.

By no means am I saying that we all have to share the same viewpoint, so don't take it that way. I'm just saying it wears you down reading the same things over and over so why waste the time getting into a conversation when you know the road it's going to go down at the end of the day.

I would agree with both these points. [mention]Phantom[/mention] has largely nailed it from the basketball side of things. My dad is a good example. While not a die hard fan like me, he used to love going to the games, and had fun. Over the years, he has more or less lost interest and it has become increasingly less fun with the inconsistency and the we're almost there.. He'll go to games now if he has nothing better to do, but he certainly isn't trying to attend every game.

From a board perspective, I agree with Redbird 28, and it pretty much hits how I know I felt towards the end of last year.

 

[bombay]

ISU has won 1 NCAA game since Rick Lamb and Hank Cornley were there. I hope they can find a miracle worker coach, but the deck is stacked against mid-majors more than ever. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[HT59]

What are the chances DM realizes this is going nowhere and resigns?

 

[ricohill]

What are the chances DM realizes this is going nowhere and resigns?

Zero. $$$$ Dan loves cash and he's not leaving it on the table even if it is what is best for the program and University. It's not all on Dan as much as I think his ego and arrogance has created issues within the basketball program. Look at the Arena revamp. It's a halfway done renovation by force due to ADA and the seats falling apart. You drive down to Champaign and they have a fully renovated modern arena. Loyola just built a first class practice facility. We are falling behind to a point where we can't catch up. The years of apathy by the athletic administration hasn't helped the failures on the court.

Despite not having a forward thinking administration. Donewald getting the arena built, ISU being in Blo-No , and the school being popular has put ISU basketball in a position to win, but the last 7 and 1/2 years have been a failure on the court.

 

[TIMMY]

The apathy is also fueled by too many 'ALMOSTS' in the last, say, 15 years. During the Richardson era, there was still the echo of the Stallings years that people were clinging to and allowed some cushion for, but that fell like a lead balloon toward the end. And then...

- Some hype came back during Moser's 2nd year. We found ourselves at 16-5 at one point and then completely crashed in the final month. Deflating.
- Major buzz existed during Jank's first two years. Legit star power on the roster. 25+ wins. Attendance skyrocketed to 90s levels. 3 sellouts in '09...averaged 8800/game in Valley play. Back in the title game both years - lost both, and missed an at-large due to awful scheduling. Deflating.
- Great belief when DM took over. Beloved as a player. "If anyone can get us there, it's him," was the narrative. Consistent, winning seasons and overall competitive - great! Several title game appearances but no wins. Couldn't get any closer than '17 and yet some bad losses & a blowout in the title game killed an at-large chance. Deflating.

Basically, folks are tired of not only the 22 year drought, but having plenty of ramped-up instances where it feels like it's FINALLY going to happen - only to have the ship sink at the last minute faster than the Edmund Fitzgerald. It's been a tease. It's showing we are just an 'almost good enough' program. It's frustrating beyond words at this point.

Great description of the last quarter century. So what's the common denominator? 4 shitty coaches? It's got to go beyond that. Admin? They've turned over. Community? All of the above?
Something's off. It's way too easy to just blame this coach. Any feeble mind can do that. Phantom's post illustrates that it goes beyond a single coach. ISU has too much going for it to be down in a major sport for this long.

 

[DannyCooksey]

The apathy is also fueled by too many 'ALMOSTS' in the last, say, 15 years. During the Richardson era, there was still the echo of the Stallings years that people were clinging to and allowed some cushion for, but that fell like a lead balloon toward the end. And then...

- Some hype came back during Moser's 2nd year. We found ourselves at 16-5 at one point and then completely crashed in the final month. Deflating.
- Major buzz existed during Jank's first two years. Legit star power on the roster. 25+ wins. Attendance skyrocketed to 90s levels. 3 sellouts in '09...averaged 8800/game in Valley play. Back in the title game both years - lost both, and missed an at-large due to awful scheduling. Deflating.
- Great belief when DM took over. Beloved as a player. "If anyone can get us there, it's him," was the narrative. Consistent, winning seasons and overall competitive - great! Several title game appearances but no wins. Couldn't get any closer than '17 and yet some bad losses & a blowout in the title game killed an at-large chance. Deflating.

Basically, folks are tired of not only the 22 year drought, but having plenty of ramped-up instances where it feels like it's FINALLY going to happen - only to have the ship sink at the last minute faster than the Edmund Fitzgerald. It's been a tease. It's showing we are just an 'almost good enough' program. It's frustrating beyond words at this point.

Great description of the last quarter century. So what's the common denominator? 4 shitty coaches? It's got to go beyond that. Admin? They've turned over. Community? All of the above?
Something's off. It's way too easy to just blame this coach. Any feeble mind can do that. Phantom's post illustrates that it goes beyond a single coach. ISU has too much going for it to be down in a major sport for this long.

Agreed. It's not just on Muller or this athletic administration. I think the term is systemic failure. No matter the athletic administration and no matter the coaching the program can't find its ass with both hands.

I don't pretend to know the answer. I have no idea.

 

[Hamdonger]

What are the chances DM realizes this is going nowhere and resigns?

Zero. $$$$ Dan loves cash and he's not leaving it on the table even if it is what is best for the program and University.

This is the kind of comment that just illustrates that half the time...at least...you're a troll. You're too intelligent to be a troll.

I could actually see a situation where Dan "resigns." Perhaps more on that later...

In the meantime, go Dan and go Redbirds.

 

[FriscoBird90]

Twenty-one year NCAA tournament drought. Watching your conference atrophy over the years as programs like Tulsa, Creighton, and Wichita State left for greener pastures. Knowing your athletic administration is on the contract hook for too many years at too high a salary to make a coaching change in the near future. Knowing some of your athletic facilities still have a long way to go to be competitive with some of the programs to which we would like to compare ourselves. For the time being, not much more to do than to embrace the suck, or in this case, the apathy, and hope to be pleasantly surprised with positive results in some form or fashion sooner rather than later.

 

[Bird Friend]

ISU has won 1 NCAA game since Rick Lamb and Hank Cornley were there. I hope they can find a miracle worker coach, but the deck is stacked against mid-majors more than ever. I'm not holding my breath.

Actually, Lamb never won an NCAA game. Cornley and Zwart only won one. Stefanovic, McKenney, William Anderson, Ricky Johnson, Brad Duncan, and Bill Braksick won two games.

 

[Bird Friend]

What are the chances DM realizes this is going nowhere and resigns?

 

[Bird Friend]

The apathy is also fueled by too many 'ALMOSTS' in the last, say, 15 years. During the Richardson era, there was still the echo of the Stallings years that people were clinging to and allowed some cushion for, but that fell like a lead balloon toward the end. And then...

- Some hype came back during Moser's 2nd year. We found ourselves at 16-5 at one point and then completely crashed in the final month. Deflating.
- Major buzz existed during Jank's first two years. Legit star power on the roster. 25+ wins. Attendance skyrocketed to 90s levels. 3 sellouts in '09...averaged 8800/game in Valley play. Back in the title game both years - lost both, and missed an at-large due to awful scheduling. Deflating.
- Great belief when DM took over. Beloved as a player. "If anyone can get us there, it's him," was the narrative. Consistent, winning seasons and overall competitive - great! Several title game appearances but no wins. Couldn't get any closer than '17 and yet some bad losses & a blowout in the title game killed an at-large chance. Deflating.

Basically, folks are tired of not only the 22 year drought, but having plenty of ramped-up instances where it feels like it's FINALLY going to happen - only to have the ship sink at the last minute faster than the Edmund Fitzgerald. It's been a tease. It's showing we are just an 'almost good enough' program. It's frustrating beyond words at this point.

Great description of the last quarter century. So what's the common denominator? 4 shitty coaches? It's got to go beyond that. Admin? They've turned over. Community? All of the above?
Something's off. It's way too easy to just blame this coach. Any feeble mind can do that. Phantom's post illustrates that it goes beyond a single coach. ISU has too much going for it to be down in a major sport for this long.

Agreed. It's not just on Muller or this athletic administration. I think the term is systemic failure. No matter the athletic administration and no matter the coaching the program can't find its ass with both hands.

I don't pretend to know the answer. I have no idea.

Wait . . . we still have both hands?