#18 WIU at #13 ILLINOIS STATE Noon Kickoff

[fourthandshort]

This and this to the prior 2 posts. Criticise and analyse what went wrong .. but to act like all hope is lost is over-reacting and just plain destructive .. panicking accomishes nothing .. in fact, it usually makes things worse.

So I'm not disagreeing with specific issues cited .. just the notion that all hope is lost with this team.

I don't believe most feel the sky is falling or the Redbirds have officially been eliminated for the playoffs. Rather I feel you are the one most often out of touch with reality. Sorry but your all world quarterback Jake Kolbe has not been playing anything near all world and ISU is likely to end up as either the 4th or most likely the 5th best team in the MVFC vs ending up in 1st or 2nd place. Hoping for a third place finish is the best realistic outcome..meaning we go 1 and 1 and somehow win a tie breaker for 3rd place. I hope I am wrong but these next two games for this very good defensive/weak offensive ISU team looks more likely to be Ls vs Ws. Depending on how USD performs we could even end up in 6th place if we lose both games and USD splits their last two games. Not taking care of business down in Carbondale is looking to be problematic for ISU's playoff chances.

I never said Kolbe was "all world" .. please stop the hyperbole.

I did say I believed he had potential to be a very good QB for us. And while he has shown us some upside, he has admittedly shown more downside .. especially this year. So yes, it hasn't panned out like I hoped it would. Circumstances have not been ideal with our OC situation, and then this year with OL and WR group.

That said, I believe he still gives us our best shot at winning. I am pretty sure, no one else is ready to take the reins. Coaches know these QBs inside out ... we're going to have to trust they are playing the guy who gives us best chance.

You should have noticed that my posts this year have been focused much more on establishing our run game as our strength .. and have acknowledged we can not lead with pass game for a variety of reasons ... because we have weaknesses in several areas of pass game. But OL and WR groups being where they are .. he is clearly struggling.

So it is with that in mind that I continue to support Kolbe. He is the guy who has to lead us while we still have a shot at playoffs. We have to do what we can to win with what we have. Some of you act like there are obviously better alternatives .. do you really think the coaches are that stupid.

Look up 2012 season .. were you some of the same guys screaming for Brown to be benched, Spack to be fired, OC to be lynched .. talking about how bad our RBs were, how bad our secondary was. The hyperbole gets pretty off the charts during low points.

MVFC has never been this good 1 thru 8 as they are this year.. with a very good but banged YSU falling all the way to 8th. We're 6-3 and are just one win from very probable playoff bid in a year MVFC has never been better.

This is our team, Kolbe is our QB .. our OL is our OL, and so on ... .. they can't behold tryouts and start over. I'm going to support our team and expect our coaches to do whatever they think is best to get us one more win. Kolbe is our QB .. so I'm going to keep rooting for him and team.

 

[RollBirds2002]

Well we knew Fourth would come here and rip those who were embarrassed by the effort today.

Maybe, just maybe, some of us want more than a 7-4 season. Efforts like today SHOULD NEVER happen at home. Ever.

Sugar coat it all you want with the fact we have two games left and can still get to 7-4. Yawn. I expect a little more from this program than possibly sneaking into the playoffs at this point. This is the third time this season the team stopped competing and was embarrassed.

To me, this program is regressing when others like Western are getting better. Excuse me if that bothers me.

as if no other good team has bad days. by your standards, no teams would have any fans ... I prefer not to panic after a bad day. you prefer to thing the world is coming to an end and all hope is lost. In meantime, ISU has NEVER had this good of a run going back to 2011 ... none, never, not close.

but if you're happier panicking, being perpetually frustrated, and thinking all hope is lost ... good luck with that.

yesterday was pretty plain and simple, we got outcoached 2nd half, and game still turned on just 2 bad plays. Not sugar coating it, just saying what I think happened.

sun came up today .. at leastI I presume so, it was a pretty foggy. we have 2 games left .. 1 win should put is in playoffs. We had no chance against USD .. right ? A year ago we had no chance against SDSU .. right ?

Welcome to MVFC .. tough conference .. get used to this.

Don’t question my fanhood. Nobody is abandoning the team/program. I’m upset and I’ve got the right to be upset when this team gets blown out in three games.

Asking the team to compete, which they didn’t in the second half, is not much, IMO.

To each their own.

Here’s hoping the team that beat South Dakota and YSU shows up in Brookings.

Gotta agree with SC on this one. Good teams DO have bad days as Fourth expressed, but when was the last time you saw NDSU have a half where they flat out didn't compete? Nothing against WIU because they responded in the 2nd half and 100% deserved to win yesterday, but in all 3 of ISU's losses this season they took a team for granted and got punched in the mouth for it... That's the difference between a great team like NDSU and an above average team like this year's Redbirds. A good team always shows up and might lose a close one or two, but they're not going to lose 42-7 to the likes of SIU who lost to Missouri state yesterday. Talent is a part of distinguishing above average, good and great teams but just as importantly is mental toughness which keeps you in the game and ultimately wins the close ones and is a HUGE difference between above average, good, and great teams. They may and could very easily find a way into the playoffs but this is no "lunch pail" Brock Spack football team.

 

[TreRoberson4Heisman]

https://twitter.com/torgy_77/status/926924239999029249

 

[Chi-bird]

as if no other good team has bad days. by your standards, no teams would have any fans ... I prefer not to panic after a bad day. you prefer to thing the world is coming to an end and all hope is lost. In meantime, ISU has NEVER had this good of a run going back to 2011 ... none, never, not close.

but if you're happier panicking, being perpetually frustrated, and thinking all hope is lost ... good luck with that.

yesterday was pretty plain and simple, we got outcoached 2nd half, and game still turned on just 2 bad plays. Not sugar coating it, just saying what I think happened.

sun came up today .. at leastI I presume so, it was a pretty foggy. we have 2 games left .. 1 win should put is in playoffs. We had no chance against USD .. right ? A year ago we had no chance against SDSU .. right ?

Welcome to MVFC .. tough conference .. get used to this.

Don’t question my fanhood. Nobody is abandoning the team/program. I’m upset and I’ve got the right to be upset when this team gets blown out in three games.

Asking the team to compete, which they didn’t in the second half, is not much, IMO.

To each their own.

Here’s hoping the team that beat South Dakota and YSU shows up in Brookings.

Gotta agree with SC on this one. Good teams DO have bad days as Fourth expressed, but when was the last time you saw NDSU have a half where they flat out didn't compete? [/b]

NDSU is in a league of its own. There are no teams (including FBS schools) with their recent track record. If we are going to use them as measuring stick, we will be disappointed.....as would all teams in the country.

 

[Brick]

Bottom line. We are a good but not yet great football team We may very well get into the playoffs but we have a good chance to be a GREAT team next year with most of the cast returning

 

[cubird]

1 must win for playoffs. Offense has been feast or famine all year. In there loses the defense was worn out by our own offense not at least executing long drives.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Don’t question my fanhood. Nobody is abandoning the team/program. I’m upset and I’ve got the right to be upset when this team gets blown out in three games.

Asking the team to compete, which they didn’t in the second half, is not much, IMO.

To each their own.

Here’s hoping the team that beat South Dakota and YSU shows up in Brookings.

Gotta agree with SC on this one. Good teams DO have bad days as Fourth expressed, but when was the last time you saw NDSU have a half where they flat out didn't compete? [/b]

NDSU is in a league of its own. There are no teams (including FBS schools) with their recent track record. If we are going to use them as measuring stick, we will be disappointed.....as would all teams in the country.

I’m still pissed and I’m not going to go easy on this program after three losses to teams we should have beaten. I want us to get to NDSU levels and I don’t think being happy with 6-5, if we make the playoffs, is the attitude that’s gonna get us to the next level.

Win the next two and show the football world who we can be.

Time for our turn!!!

 

[saxman210]

Gotta agree with SC on this one. Good teams DO have bad days as Fourth expressed, but when was the last time you saw NDSU have a half where they flat out didn't compete? [/b]

NDSU is in a league of its own. There are no teams (including FBS schools) with their recent track record. If we are going to use them as measuring stick, we will be disappointed.....as would all teams in the country.

I want us to get to NDSU levels and I don’t think being happy with 6-5, if we make the playoffs, is the attitude that’s gonna get us to the next level.

We will never be NDSU. Why? Because Illinois is Home to 2 big ten teams, 1 MAC team, 3 MVFC teams and 1 OVC team. Try recruiting through all that and see if we can be NDSU. North Dakota State has the market cornered up in Fargo, the biggest city in the state.

Many of you on the board made the trip to Frisco in 2014 and you saw what NDSU fandom is made of. Bizon football IS the ONLY game in town up there. Not to mention there’s no NFL, MLB, NBA or NHL teams so the only to cheer for is NDSU.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

I decided to get a few days away from the WIU game before making any posts. Some observations with a little distance from Saturday. Without a doubt Kolbe is the best option for now. His passes tend to sail very frequently. Receivers routinely have to leap for the ball and have made some really nice catches on balls that were not that well thrown. A very high percentage of passes that Kolbe throws are behind the receiver and rarely does he lead the receiver to enable him to catch in stride. Go back and watch the games and you will see this is the truth. Having said all that, he is still the best option on the roster now. Broadnax has not shown the ability to be an accurate passer either and the defenses now just stack the box when he enters the game and he is not consistently effective. Next season we will see how it develops. I would not say at this point that Kolbe has the starting job locked up for next year even as a two year returning starter. He just has not shown the ability to pass the ball accurately on a consistent basis, he just has not. The O line did not play well Saturday but I also was wondering during the game in the first half why it seemed the Birds abandoned the running game. They were running effectively and even Coach Spack has said they have to run the ball. Towards the end of the first half it appeared to me they became a bit pass happy. I think the play calling did not help an O line still developing and that goes to the Offensive Coordinator which I still believe is a very weak point for the Birds.
The Defense essentially played the entire second half without an offense. Credit to the WIU O line as they controlled the line of scrimmage the entire second half. The WIU QB was able to make some pinpoint throws which we rarely see from Kolbe. It reminded me a bit of the Richmond playoff game a couple years ago. It seemed everything he threw was a perfect pass and the WIU receivers were running wide open a great deal of the time.
All that leads to the fact that the WIU coaching staff did a great job in the second half and the Birds staff was totally out coached. If you look closely at the first half WIU really beat themselves to a large extent. TD called back and a bunch of critical penalties. I thought going into halftime the Birds were lucky to be ahead by 14 but even then I never expected the total collapse we witnessed in the second half.
The fake punt I thought was a bad call at that point in the game but the reality is if it worked we would all be lauding the courage and creativity of that call. It failed miserably and so the opposite reaction. Looking at it without the emotion I just did not see the reason to take that big a risk with the score where it was and with so much time left. I know they were looking to jump start a completely stagnant offense but it was just too big a risk for the situation in my mind. Others may disagree. Again the Offensive Coordinator and play calling is suspect at best.
I will be watching this Saturday and hoping for the best. I will watch the Bison come to town as well and I will be cheering and hoping for a big win but looking at it realistically the Birds will probably be home licking their wounds and lamenting a season that should have been better...and watching the FCS playoffs on television. I hope I am wrong...but...

 

[fourthandshort]

great summary post Virginia ... their head coach is former Richmond OC, so very offensive minded by trade. Spack is defensive minded, and relies on Dicken/Clark .. both former QBs, but maybe not OC types. I'm assuming the game plan each week together - this seems to work well sometimes, and not well other times.

Again, we came into game with a strong game plans on both sides of ball and the players were ready to play. Difference was, they made offensive and defensive adjustments at halftime, and we had no answer to their adjustments. !st half, we were the top 10 team everyone thinks we can be .. 2nd half, we were not.

WIU has 105 total yards in 1st half. They had 53 total yards Q4, They had 224 yards in Q3. They adjusted at half, we dd not.

But let's not discount fact that WIU is a very good team.

 

[DaveBird10]

Is Broadnax there? I tweeted at Randy and he said he is but i didn’t see him at all with a headset on.

Also, can someone remind me whether Jordan Birch is hurt? They keep saying Drashane is back there to return kicks.

This team is immensely frustrating. We better wake the hell up vs SDSU or NDSU.

Smith usually has headset during the games.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[JHBird]

Yesterday's second half was an embarrassment - How can a team be so flat and lifeless. We looked like a team that did not know what was going on - just pathetic. Our offensive playing calling, and blocking schemes are terrible. Then on defense - how can so many receivers get so OPEN and get behind our DBs so often?? Do we have a DB coach??? Terrible.

To me our DB's have been the biggest disappointment this year. Any team that has a good passing attack seems to torch us. I know SDSU has a good passing attackt, but we still have a good chance at an upset. They have to be ripe for a letdown after that great win at home vs NDSU. I doubt they are fearing us right now.

 

[McHalesNavy]

I decided to get a few days away from the WIU game before making any posts. Some observations with a little distance from Saturday. Without a doubt Kolbe is the best option for now. His passes tend to sail very frequently. Receivers routinely have to leap for the ball and have made some really nice catches on balls that were not that well thrown. A very high percentage of passes that Kolbe throws are behind the receiver and rarely does he lead the receiver to enable him to catch in stride. Go back and watch the games and you will see this is the truth. Having said all that, he is still the best option on the roster now. Broadnax has not shown the ability to be an accurate passer either and the defenses now just stack the box when he enters the game and he is not consistently effective. Next season we will see how it develops. I would not say at this point that Kolbe has the starting job locked up for next year even as a two year returning starter. He just has not shown the ability to pass the ball accurately on a consistent basis, he just has not. The O line did not play well Saturday but I also was wondering during the game in the first half why it seemed the Birds abandoned the running game. They were running effectively and even Coach Spack has said they have to run the ball. Towards the end of the first half it appeared to me they became a bit pass happy. I think the play calling did not help an O line still developing and that goes to the Offensive Coordinator which I still believe is a very weak point for the Birds.
The Defense essentially played the entire second half without an offense. Credit to the WIU O line as they controlled the line of scrimmage the entire second half. The WIU QB was able to make some pinpoint throws which we rarely see from Kolbe. It reminded me a bit of the Richmond playoff game a couple years ago. It seemed everything he threw was a perfect pass and the WIU receivers were running wide open a great deal of the time.
All that leads to the fact that the WIU coaching staff did a great job in the second half and the Birds staff was totally out coached. If you look closely at the first half WIU really beat themselves to a large extent. TD called back and a bunch of critical penalties. I thought going into halftime the Birds were lucky to be ahead by 14 but even then I never expected the total collapse we witnessed in the second half.
The fake punt I thought was a bad call at that point in the game but the reality is if it worked we would all be lauding the courage and creativity of that call. It failed miserably and so the opposite reaction. Looking at it without the emotion I just did not see the reason to take that big a risk with the score where it was and with so much time left. I know they were looking to jump start a completely stagnant offense but it was just too big a risk for the situation in my mind. Others may disagree. Again the Offensive Coordinator and play calling is suspect at best.
I will be watching this Saturday and hoping for the best. I will watch the Bison come to town as well and I will be cheering and hoping for a big win but looking at it realistically the Birds will probably be home licking their wounds and lamenting a season that should have been better...and watching the FCS playoffs on television. I hope I am wrong...but...

:text-+1: This is very much on point

 

[fourthandshort]

Gotta agree with SC on this one. Good teams DO have bad days as Fourth expressed, but when was the last time you saw NDSU have a half where they flat out didn't compete? [/b]

NDSU is in a league of its own. There are no teams (including FBS schools) with their recent track record. If we are going to use them as measuring stick, we will be disappointed.....as would all teams in the country.

I’m still pissed and I’m not going to go easy on this program after three losses to teams we should have beaten. I want us to get to NDSU levels and I don’t think being happy with 6-5, if we make the playoffs, is the attitude that’s gonna get us to the next level.

Win the next two and show the football world who we can be.

Time for our turn!!!

I never said nor heard anyone else say they were "happy" going 6-5. I guess the difference is, I'm still thinking of what we need to do to make playoffs, and still going to support my team in meantime .. even while we struggle at times, and especially while we still have a shot at playoffs.

And another area where I differ with some of you when it comes to criticizing and humiliating individual players .. I draw a hard line between professional players making millions of dollars and college student-athletes. Kolbe works his a-- off and does everything he can to help his team win. And he is struggling to overcome these many other offensive deficiencies, in addition to his own. So I refuse to put this all on him. And I still believe he gives us our best chance. So I will continue to support him thru this.

Some of you are just way too eager to write the post mortem on this team and individual players before we're dead. I prefer to salvage this season anyway I can ... not settling for 6-5 .. just supporting our team whose trying to win games and make playoffs.

p.s. and again, these are unpaid college students who sacrifice a lot, and put themselves out there .. there ought to be a big difference in how they are treated, when they don't perform, compared to professional athletes.

 

[ST_Lawson]

Hi Redbirds. I wanted to wait a couple of days before showing back up, because I never want to be "that" fan that shows up at an opposing fan's board right after a game and is either condescending or just an outright a**hole. I won't comment on the game itself since you guys have that pretty well locked down and we all saw the game/results.

I did want to say a few thank you's though...

ChiRedbirdfan - Thank you again for the tickets. My mom and I were able to enjoy the game from really good seats and surrounded by friendly Redbird fans. We couldn't really help ourselves from clapping and cheering when things were going Western's way, but I will say that I was much quieter and more reserved than I usually am at home games and than I was when we went to our game at UNI earlier in the season.

fourthandshort - Thank you for the friendly welcome and the tailgate munchies, it was appreciated (and those pumpkin bars were excellent...kudos to whomever made them). All the folks I met at your tailgate spot (sorry, I didn't catch everyone's usernames, but I know fourthandshort introduced me to at least 2-3 of you guys) were incredibly friendly and knowledgeable about our level of football...it was great chatting with you all.

Everyone else around these parts - Thank you all for the annual welcome to your forum to talk about our two teams and engage in a bit of light trash talk. It looks like, due to MVFC scheduling shenanigans, we actually play you guys back in Normal again next year (I can explain exactly why, but it'd take a paragraph or two, so I'll skip that)...that'll be the 4th time we've played in Normal in 4 years (twice in 2015, once in 2017, once in 2018). I look forward to meeting up with all the previously mentioned folks as well as anyone else who's around at next year's game (unless something comes up scheduling-wise, I'll be there).

Good luck the rest of the season, unless we meet up again in the playoffs...which is actually possible.
If we win out (we're favored in both games), there's a chance we could get a seed and a first round bye if things fall our way.
If UNI wins out (they're favored in both games too), then they'll be 7-4 with a couple of solid conference wins and should be in, but no seed.
If you guys take one of your two remaining games, then you're likely in at 7-4 as well without a seed.
I could easily see the playoff selection committee pairing up you and UNI in the first round (same conference, but not a regular season rematch, since you didn't play in the regular season), with the winner coming to our place for a rematch.

Anyway, thanks everybody. You guys are always welcome to stop by our message board at Leathernecknation.net and say hi. Otherwise, I'll catch you all next year for ISU vs WIU Game #101.

 

[MadBird]

Without quoting the whole response, I'll get fourthandshort's back again. No one's "happy" or "satisfied" with 6-5, but the season isn't over yet even tho we face the Dakotas in the next two weeks and it won't be easy. I think Total Red called the Birds "unpredictable", while I was using "inconsistent", and that's what's frustrating about this team, you don't know which team will show up.

This is year two of criticism on this board for our play-calling/OC stuff and it would be nice for the coaching staff to shut us up with a couple solid game plans and "booth performances".

 

[fourthandshort]

Enjoyed meeting you, Lawson.

If we finish 7-4, and UNI does too .. I can easily see us paired with them for playoff game, which would then likely play into an 8-3 WIU. This ensures MVFC war of attrition continues into playoffs and spares other the trouble. Good luck with rest of season.

 

[jbird]

I've only "coached" from the bleachers or from a recliner, so I don't know nuthin,' but:

(1) I am not a proponent of a no huddle/up tempo offense just for the novelty/excitement of it, but I'm wondering if at times it would help us (even with an inexperienced offensive line) fire off before the opponent's front seven........or nine in the box, as the case may be.......is firmly locked in.

(2) The 31-0 second half butt-kicking made this less relevant, but I sensed a little complacency in our coaching on our last possession of the first half. As I recall, we had at least 1:30 on the clock and all three timeouts. With a breeze at his back, a 50 yard field goal by Slattery is possible (he has a couple in his Redbird career). But we ran off clock with three vanilla running plays and took all three timeouts into the locker room. If we had a 14 point lead at the end of the fourth quarter, I could agree with playing conservative and using the clock.. if you are so afraid of a turnover in your own territory that you stop trying to score points in the second quarter, then you might have a personnel problem.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

I've only "coached" from the bleachers or from a recliner, so I don't know nuthin,' but:

(1) I am not a proponent of a no huddle/up tempo offense just for the novelty/excitement of it, but I'm wondering if at times it would help us (even with an inexperienced offensive line) fire off before the opponent's front seven........or nine in the box, as the case may be.......is firmly locked in.

(2) The 31-0 second half butt-kicking made this less relevant, but I sensed a little complacency in our coaching on our last possession of the first half. As I recall, we had at least 1:30 on the clock and all three timeouts. With a breeze at his back, a 50 yard field goal by Slattery is possible (he has a couple in his Redbird career). But we ran off clock with three vanilla running plays and took all three timeouts into the locker room. If we had a 14 point lead at the end of the fourth quarter, I could agree with playing conservative and using the clock.. if you are so afraid of a turnover in your own territory that you stop trying to score points in the second quarter, then you might have a personnel problem.

I have the same questions/thoughts regarding the offense. As you stated in #1 we can not just go and say we are going to run an up tempo offense. That said there does not seem to be any real postive tempo on the offensive side and that applies even in the first half when ISU was up 14-0 .... although had Western not shot themselves in the foot with several significant penalties we could have easily been down or tied at half.

 

[fourthandshort]

agree we need to get with times and install a no huddle / hurry up offense .. not just for 2 minute drills sake, but to mix things up once in a while and give opponents something else to game plan for. Notice other teams hurry ups .. more than half the time, they hurry to line, then back off to change or actually call a play .. they do this partly to tire out and catch defenses by surprise, but also partly to stop defense from substituting .. not just tiring them out, but keeping defemse from bring nickel package in if they end up in 3rd and long.

also flabbergasted on last drive of 1st half .. I can see being conservative starting from our 10 initially, but once they called timeout after 2nd down, and we got the first down anyway on 3rd down .. still with 2 mins and 3 timeouts left .. why wouldn't we then open it up and try to get down field for FG or TD. Put them on their heels to play prevent .. like teams would do to us .. we ought to be able to take advantage once we got the initial first down.

here was drive play sequence .. had ball at our 10 at 2:57, but got the first down at our 21 with about 2:05 left and all 3 timeouts.

1st and 10 at ILS10 ILLINOIS STATE drive start at 02:57.
1st and 10 at ILS10 ROBINSON,James rush for 9 yards to the ILS19 (Aaron Diggs;David Griffith).
2nd and 1 at ILS19 ROBINSON,James rush for loss of 1 yard to the ILS18 (Colin Olson;Mick Nelson).
3rd and 2 at ILS18 Timeout Western Illinois, clock 02:11.
3rd and 2 at ILS18 ROBINSON,James rush for 3 yards to the ILS21, 1ST DOWN ILS (Aaron Diggs).
1st and 10 at ILS21 SMITH,Markel rush for 3 yards to the ILS24 (Khalen Saunders).
2nd and 7 at ILS24 SMITH,Markel rush for 2 yards to the ILS26 (Pete Swenson;Brett Taylor).
3rd and 5 at ILS26 Timeout Western Illinois, clock 00:51.
3rd and 5 at ILS26 SMITH,Markel rush for loss of 1 yard to the ILS25 (Mike Viti;Quentin Moon).
4th and 6 at ILS25 Timeout Western Illinois, clock 00:45.
4th and 6 at ILS25 BREEN,Zach punt 70 yards to the WIU5, downed.

Total 6 plays , 15 yards Time of Possession: 2:29