@Murray St - Tuesday 1/30/2024 - 7 pm - ESPN+

[stats]

Having the right mentality going into this game is huge. We have to win with our defense (and not even think about our shooting). We should have an offensive game plan that relies on getting the ball inside and mid-jumpers.
I've seen too many times where teams rely on 3 point shooting to win, then they don't have the same intensity on defense.

 

[TBus_Birds]

You bring up a good point. I still think it can be both. Confidence/mental is a big thing and it’s haunting this team. Couple that with them already being a pretty bad shooting team and you find yourselves where the Birds do now from deep.

After 21 games though it’s harder and harder to say it’s more mental and yips than it is just they’re not a great shooting team.

Hopeful for Davis tonight as well.

For sure. 21 games-worth of numbers don't lie so the answer is somewhere in the middle.

What's baffling is that Mal's 3P% is down 13% from last year, Burford is down 12%, Luke is down almost 6%, and Jordan is down almost 2% (closer to negligible than the others but a drop nonetheless). Were they overperforming last year? Underperforming this year? Is the drop a symptom of the system (or lack thereof) being run? Game affected by a change in role and playing time? Just difficult to establish what exactly is going wrong.

Edit: my bad. I see this point was addressed earlier in the thread. Fact is, yes, this group isn't getting it done and we need proven shooters.

 

[ScoreboardDotRace]

Or Lieb?

As long as Chase gets as many/more minutes, then sure. If it chews into Chase’s time on the court….

 

[SlackBooDom]

Just for grins, from Kasubke's KState bio:

• A consensus Top 200 prospect by several recruiting services… Also rated among the Top 40 shooting guards in the country, including No. 31 by Rivals.com and No. 37 by 247Sports.com… Rated as the No. 6 prospect in the state of Missouri by 247Sports.com.
• Scored nearly 1,500 points (1,466) in his prep career, which ranks sixth on the all-time scoring list at Chaminade… The list includes current pros Jayson Tatum (2,676/1st) and Bradley Beal (2,634/2nd) and former pro David Lee (1,602/4th)… Also ranks ninth in career scoring average (22.3 ppg.)… Connected on 44.7 percent shooting (518-of-1158), including 37.1 percent (218-of-587) from 3-point range in his career… His 218 career 3-pointers are second all-time in school history, only to Beal’s 256… Had at least 50 made 3-pointers in each of his last three seasons, including 73 as a sophomore in 2017-18.

So somewhere, sometime, he had promise. Somewhere, somehow, he lost his edge.

Or the high school 3 is just way closer than the college 3?

 

[isuquinndog]

Or the high school 3 is just way closer than the college 3?

19.75 ft vs 20.75 ft. It's not "way closer".

 

[Hamdonger]

Mid range jumper / lost art

Johnny has been fairly consistent about finding that gap from the pg slot and nailing the 13-17 footer. We really REALLY need the guards to take that shot and hit it...due to its ripple effect on the floor. Johnny will get better and better with it.

But we've got a few teams coming soon where he might get his butt tossed around - just hang in there, kid. We need ya!

 

[Hamdonger]

I posted this prior, but I don't agree with this at all. I think the 32-28% last year was the outlier. Here are the career numbers...

Burford: 81/246 = 32.9%
Banks: 59/198 = 29.8%
Foster: 1/16 = 6.2%
Lewis: 49/167 = 29.3%
Poindexter: 68/207 = 32.9%
Kasubke: 71/236 = 30.1%
Davis: 55/185 = 29.7%

Outside of Foster, for good reason, those are NOT small sample sizes. People keep saying that we have to shoot better soon, we lack confidence, the ball doesn't move, the yips, we've seen it, etc... and that is just wrong. We're a team of career bad shooters. If we shoot it better for a stretch coming up that is likely the outlier. The numbers are there that this staff recruited bad shooters and you can't fix bad shooters who have been shooting the same way for 10+ years. We'll just have to hope they evaluate their recruiting and what they look for in shooting so this doesn't repeat itself.

I liked Adunk's post because I don't think we're as bad as we've shown, but it's hard to argue with those numbers.

 

[Hamdonger]

Redbird Hoops, is your team going to make a 3 today?

"LET IT RAIN!"
~Sandy Lyle

 

[Hamdonger]

..this sentiment coincides with my belief that we need a major overhaul of ISU Athletic strategy. Maybe not if a fan is happy with ISU’s two major profile sports poor success rate all the while ISU ATHLETICS spends $$$ elsewhere to ensure securing the ALL MVC Sports trophy . When one factors in how much more ISU and the students are subsidizing the Athletic Department compared to peers then our lack of success (rather failure to perform) in men’s basketball and football is hard to fathom.

Will post Murray’s state athletic budget vs ISU’ later today

To your credit, you've been singing this song for a number of years...and your reminder of the subsidization (is that a word?) is always eye-opening.

 

[SlackBooDom]

19.75 ft vs 20.75 ft. It's not "way closer".

Swing and a miss!

The NCAA Playing Rules Oversight Panel approved moving the 3-point line to the international basketball distance of 22 feet, 1¾ inches in men’s basketball.

The rule will be effective for the 2019-20 season in Division I.

 

[Hamdonger]

Swing and a miss!

The NCAA Playing Rules Oversight Panel approved moving the 3-point line to the international basketball distance of 22 feet, 1¾ inches in men’s basketball.

The rule will be effective for the 2019-20 season in Division I.

Yep.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

..this sentiment coincides with my belief that we need a major overhaul of ISU Athletic strategy. Maybe not if a fan is happy with ISU’s two major profile sports poor success rate all the while ISU ATHLETICS spends $$$ elsewhere to ensure securing the ALL MVC Sports trophy . When one factors in how much more ISU and the students are subsidizing the Athletic Department compared to peers then our lack of success (rather failure to perform) in men’s basketball and football is hard to fathom.

Will post Murray’s state athletic budget vs ISU’ later today

2022 financial data

Illinois State Redbird Athletics
Revenue. $29,900,000
University/Student subsidy $20,900,000
Coaches/Staff. $10,800,000

Murray State Races Athletics
Revenue. $18,600,000
University/Student Subsidy $13,800,000
Coaches/Staff $5,800,000

…another example of where our Coaches/Staff expenses seem so disproportionate

Source : NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

I liked Adunk's post because I don't think we're as bad as we've shown, but it's hard to argue with those numbers.

..and when you look at this Redbird Team’s metrics via Kenpom or T-Rank they are so weak. Much worse than I would have thought. Lots of ways to win besides good 3 point shooting ie good rebounding, defense , steals, assists..etc. Overall we are not that good elsewhere either. Part of the reason I believe we need to move on from some of the guards that we currently have.

 

[Aggie]

2022 financial data

Illinois State Redbird Athletics
Revenue. $29,900,000
University/Student subsidy $20,900,000
Coaches/Staff. $10,800,000

Murray State Races Athletics
Revenue. $18,600,000
University/Student Subsidy $13,800,000
Coaches/Staff $5,800,000

…another example of where our Coaches/Staff expenses seem so disproportionate

Source : NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY

To those who say ISU has to pay huge salaries to attract top talent in the coaching ranks may want to look at the Murray State salary levels. How many times has their basketball team been to the dance in this century compared to ISU? The dance and frisco are the two measuring sticks for ISU. If money is given to a specific sport that’s great. Just make sure you are getting your monies worth. These two sports are why ISU graduates are wearing U of I sweatshirts. And it is primarily because the huge lack of success in the men’s basketball program

 

[MadBird]

Or the high school 3 is just way closer than the college 3?

True dat! Defenders shorter on average, etc. But still, you'd think the "raters" would take that into account.

 

[SgtHulka]

Redbird Hoops, is your team going to make a 3 today?

Make Some Noise!!!!

 

[Birgs]

To those who say ISU has to pay huge salaries to attract top talent in the coaching ranks may want to look at the Murray State salary levels. How many times has their basketball team been to the dance in this century compared to ISU? The dance and frisco are the two measuring sticks for ISU. If money is given to a specific sport that’s great. Just make sure you are getting your monies worth. These two sports are why ISU graduates are wearing U of I sweatshirts. And it is primarily because the huge lack of success in the men’s basketball program

Kida Devil's Advocate, but I'm guessing we win the Ohio Valley several times, at least during my "ISU Fandom" ('94-Jank/Dan Years); but you make a valid point regarding our "measuring sticks" (ad I am a big Spack guy whose "fan job"is getting pretty dicey on that end)

 

[Redbird222]

Or the high school 3 is just way closer than the college 3?

Yep use to be 1 ft further back ... now more

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Kida Devil's Advocate, but I'm guessing we win the Ohio Valley several times, at least during my "ISU Fandom" ('94-Jank/Dan Years); but you make a valid point regarding our "measuring sticks" (ad I am a big Spack guy whose "fan job"is getting pretty dicey on that end

Agree that someone has to win the Ohio Valley mens basketball tourney. But somewhat to Aggie's point, Murray State was one of the largest Ohio Valley public university athletic departments in terms of revenue and they were successful relative to their peers. Alternatively ISU is one of the largest public university athletic departments in the MVC and we are highly unsuccessful where it matters, IMO.

LETS GET A WIN TONIGHT!

 

[Redbird Alum 2004]

What is wrong with Lewis? He just doesn't seem like the same player this year.