A letter from AD Beggs on NIL

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Dr Beggs:

I am looking forward to your response on the previous topic regarding number of varsity sports offered by ISU especially as it relates to the new college landscape and our ability to compete with our conference peers and, more importantly, on a national basis. Further I would also like your perspective on how ISU Athletics operates relative to its conference peers. Again, I am looking for a reason to return to financially supporting ISU Atheltics, namely men's basketball and football with NIL donations, but first I need to believe ISU Athletics itself is operating efffectively and efficiently. Please note the following annual expense data for ISU and conference peers ( also Northern Illinois):

	Football	Basketball	Total	Annual
	Coach	Coach	Coach/Staff	Difference vs
	Salary	Salary	Expenses	ISU
Illinois State	$365,000​	$565,000​	$10,803,000​
Indiana State	$218,000​	$365,000​	$5,790,000​	-$5,013,000​
Missouri State	$275,000​	$439,000​	$8,483,000​	-$2,320,000​
Murray State	$260,000​	$520,000​	$5,768,000​	-$5,035,000​
Northern Iowa	$400,000​	$900,000​	$7,221,000​	-$3,582,000​
Northern Illlinois	$677,000​	$321,000​	$7,971,000​	-$2,832,000​
Southern Illinois	$265,000​	$460,000​	$6,170,000​	-$4,633,000​
UIC	N/a	$410,000​	$6,426,000​	-$4,377,000​

When looking at how much more ISU spends than it public university peers on coach/staff expenses it is hard for me to justify donating as I find ISU's annual staff expenditures alarming. Given our lack of success on the field and the court it seems as though we are poorly managed as respects to finances. I am hoping that is not the case but hard to believe otherwise when looking at these expenditures. I thought maybe we paid our men's basketball and football coaches signficantly more than our conference peers but as you can see that is not the case. I also though maybe we spend more on academic support for our students and consequently our academic progress rate would be higher but that is not the case as MO State, UNI and SIU had higher APR's in 2022 for men's basketball than ISU and Indiana State and Uni had higher APRs in football than ISU. I know that you are not responsible for these financial results but I am hoping you can shed some light as to why our staff expenses are so much higher than all other listed universities. Maybe there is a good explanation?

Thank you and I look forward to your response.

Respectfully,

 

[normalbird]

Chi Fan,

Good info, thanks for putting it together. I was surprised by the large differences in athletics budgets. That said, I’ve never observed any profligate or extravagant spending by Athletics; in fact, quite the opposite

I think it is unrealistic to expect the AD to engage in a back and forth discussion on this board with its members.

One of the explanations for spending disparities might be the number of sports programs supported by the various institutions. ISU has always tried to maintain a variety of non-revenue sports to complement its overall policy of inclusivity and diversity.

Any idea how UNI’s overall university budget compares to ISU?

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Chi Fan,

Good info, thanks for putting it together. I was surprised by the large differences in athletics budgets. That said, I’ve never observed any profligate or extravagant spending by Athletics; in fact, quite the opposite

I think it is unrealistic to expect the AD to engage in a back and forth discussion on this board with its members.

One of the explanations for spending disparities might be the number of sports programs supported by the various institutions. ISU has always tried to maintain a variety of non-revenue sports to complement its overall policy of inclusivity and diversity.

Any idea how UNI’s overall university budget compares to ISU?

Agree that extravagant spending may not be the issue but maybe we are not as lean and mean as our competitors/conf mates? It seems we may be a bloated/overstaffed operation as measured by our conference peers. All these $$$s on staff are dollars that could be spent on facilities, better head coaches. I looked at staffing and we appear to be so heavily staffed....we now have an athletic department employee with the title "chief operating officer. Wish I had accerss to real live ISU athletic department expnese data to delve into where ISU spends it money on staffing and do some in-depth comparisons. We have not had success in so long in men's basketball and we even struggle in a weaker FCS football division and I believe it is not due to bad luck as some do believe. That is why I started to analyze how ISU Athletics operates relative to its peers. It has been eye opening on the surface and now I am beginning to believe that the lack of winning is, in large part, a cultural issue.

btw....I am posting emails that I will ultimately send directly to the AD. Will i get an answer? ..who knows but i guess not likely given the topic. Sharing the information with others to gain their perspective.

I would guess that UNI's overall university budget is significantly smaller than ISU. Will look it up tomorrow.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

Dr Beggs:

I am looking forward to your response on the previous topic regarding number of varsity sports offered by ISU especially as it relates to the new college landscape and our ability to compete with our conference peers and, more importantly, on a national basis. Further I would also like your perspective on how ISU Athletics operates relative to its conference peers. Again, I am looking for a reason to return to financially supporting ISU Atheltics, namely men's basketball and football with NIL donations, but first I need to believe ISU Athletics itself is operating efffectively and efficiently. Please note the following annual expense data for ISU and conference peers ( also Northern Illinois):

	Football	Basketball	Total	Annual
	Coach	Coach	Coach/Staff	Difference vs
	Salary	Salary	Expenses	ISU
Illinois State	$365,000​	$565,000​	$10,803,000​
Indiana State	$218,000​	$365,000​	$5,790,000​	-$5,013,000​
Missouri State	$275,000​	$439,000​	$8,483,000​	-$2,320,000​
Murray State	$260,000​	$520,000​	$5,768,000​	-$5,035,000​
Northern Iowa	$400,000​	$900,000​	$7,221,000​	-$3,582,000​
Northern Illlinois	$677,000​	$321,000​	$7,971,000​	-$2,832,000​
Southern Illinois	$265,000​	$460,000​	$6,170,000​	-$4,633,000​
UIC	N/a	$410,000​	$6,426,000​	-$4,377,000​

When looking at how much more ISU spends than it public university peers on coach/staff expenses it is hard for me to justify donating as I find ISU's annual staff expenditures alarming. Given our lack of success on the field and the court it seems as though we are poorly managed as respects to finances. I am hoping that is not the case but hard to believe otherwise when looking at these expenditures. I thought maybe we paid our men's basketball and football coaches signficantly more than our conference peers but as you can see that is not the case. I also though maybe we spend more on academic support for our students and consequently our academic progress rate would be higher but that is not the case as MO State, UNI and SIU had higher APR's in 2022 for men's basketball than ISU and Indiana State and Uni had higher APRs in football than ISU. I know that you are not responsible for these financial results but I am hoping you can shed some light as to why our staff expenses are so much higher than all other listed universities. Maybe there is a good explanation?

Thank you and I look forward to your response.

Respectfully,

Your info is outdated and incorrect. Both Missouri State and SIU are spending on par with if not more than ISU for basketball coaches. It’s the price of doing business.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Your info is outdated and incorrect. Both Missouri State and SIU are spending on par with if not more than ISU for basketball coaches. It’s the price of doing business.

2022 data. Show me where you are getting the numbers.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

2022 data. Show me where you are getting the numbers.

Look up what they just hired Nagy and Martin for respectively. Both got $600k.

Cuonzo Martin contract details at Missouri State: Salary, buyout, incentives

Here are the details of Cuonzo Martin's new five-year deal at Missouri State. The deal includes an overhaul in attendenace incentives.

www.news-leader.com

SIU officially introduces new men's basketball coach Scott Nagy

Nagy takes over a program with most of its roster currently in the transfer portal.

www.wsiu.org

 

[Aggie]

Look up what they just hired Nagy and Martin for respectively. Both got $600k.

Cuonzo Martin contract details at Missouri State: Salary, buyout, incentives

Here are the details of Cuonzo Martin's new five-year deal at Missouri State. The deal includes an overhaul in attendenace incentives.

www.news-leader.com

SIU officially introduces new men's basketball coach Scott Nagy

Nagy takes over a program with most of its roster currently in the transfer portal.

www.wsiu.org

It is not the spending on men’s basketball and football that is out of line with our peers, but sports with lots less revenue and media exposure along with the overall athletic department that is way out of line with our peers.

 

[Birdswin]

ChiRedbirdfan - excellent work on finding this information. Your note to Interim AD Beggs is spot on - well written. Thanks for all of the work you are doing.

 

[MadBird]

Interesting stuff in an article from today's Indy Star about Butler U., but talked some about NIL:

In today’s college athletics landscape schools need substantial Name, Image and Likeness compensation to be competitive. Per figures provided by Opendorse analyzing the past two years of NIL, NIL collectives delivered 75% of all NIL compensation in Year 2 of the current system.

The top spenders of Power 5 conference schools have NIL collectives contributing more than $10 million to college athletes. Middle tier Power 5 schools have NIL contributions between $10 million to $5 million, followed by lower tier Power 5 and upper tier rest of 5 Schools ($5 million to $1 million).

At Power 5 schools, football players have an average compensation of $7,262, followed by men’s basketball players ($4,929) and women’s basketball players ($2,070). At Rest of 5 schools, men’s basketball players have an average compensation of $3,089, followed by women’s basketball players ($1,316) and football players ($1,093).

 

[cubird]

Interesting about the lower P5 not having enough NIL to compete even in basketball with their big football peers. Iowa has no big corporations to subsidize their NIL and individual donors can only contribute so much year after year. Then do they pull their charitable university giving to pay for play?

 

[Aggie]

Iowa or Iowa State may need to switch their school colors to John Deere green.

 

[Aggie]

Tennessee NIL changes become law

(The Center Square) – A Tennessee law that will match a lawsuit filed by the state against the NCAA has gone into effect.

www.thecentersquare.com

 

[Birdswin]

Interesting about the lower P5 not having enough NIL to compete even in basketball with their big football peers. Iowa has no big corporations to subsidize their NIL and individual donors can only contribute so much year after year. Then do they pull their charitable university giving to pay for play?

Probably depends on the definition of large corporations. Just because there maybe large corporations, does not mean they have the willingness and capacity to contribute. I know Musco Lighting, Bandag, Hon Office Equipment, Carver Pump, and Kent Feeds are located in Muscatine. Carver Pump - is the Carver on the name of the basketball arena. I know The Principal is in Des Moines, and Rockwell is a major employer in Cedar Rapids. I am sure there are others. John Deere is in Moline, IL - but already is large sponsor of Iowa State because of their Ag School - University of Iowa in an Ag state, does not have an Ag school - go figure that one out.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

The convention wisdom around here is that we have a goldilocks situation - just right. That is, the MVC/MVFC is right-sized to our means. But I see it as more of a value trap, or maybe road to nowhere. Even if we succeed, what does it get us? We still have an FCS ball and chain around our ankle.

5 years from now the Valley will be a shell of itself (football and basketball). Decent teams will continue to move up and will be replaced by teams we used to laugh at ($50 says Grinnel will be in the Valley at some point).
However, maybe that’s ISU’s vision…continue too dumb down the level of play in the Valley until we get to a level where we can actually compete?

 

[cubird]

If u start dumping what's left of Olympic sports how many men's sports do u have to eliminate to be compliant with Title IX? Not all athletes are getting full rides which means they are paying at least some if not all of their tuition. What is the difference of tuition gained and the cost of funding these so called non revenue sports? Within 5 years college athletes may be deemed as employees. If that happens will there be non revenue sports moving to a club model and only the revenue sports having employees?

 

[Bird Friend]

5 years from now the Valley will be a shell of itself (football and basketball). Decent teams will continue to move up and will be replaced by teams we used to laugh at ($50 says Grinnel will be in the Valley at some point).
However, maybe that’s ISU’s vision…continue too dumb down the level of play in the Valley until we get to a level where we can actually compete?

5 years from now the NCAA will look different, and those moving up now will be moved back down by the top tier P5 teams. The schism is coming and even teams in the P5 will find themselves pushed out.

 

[Aggie]

5 years from now the NCAA will look different, and those moving up now will be moved back down by the top tier P5 teams. The schism is coming and even teams in the P5 will find themselves pushed out.

100% agree, huge changes coming

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

5 years from now the NCAA will look different, and those moving up now will be moved back down by the top tier P5 teams. The schism is coming and even teams in the P5 will find themselves pushed out.

Name your bet on that 5 year prediction…I’ll take the counter side. The landscape could be different but no way are teams moving back down to current FCS football as it is currently the worst value proposition in college football as it has nearly all of expenses of fbs/g5 football but forgoes a majority of the revenue/exposure opportunities. There may be another hybrid division in football but it will be significantly greater than fcs as respects to exposure and revenue.

If you are talking division 1 basketball do you really believe universities in higher profile conferences are going to “move back down” to be conference mates with smaller profile valpo, Murray state, uni, etc. (using MVC as an example but concept applies to any higher conf member going back to a lesser conf). btw when I reference snall profile I am referencing university size or academic reputation or domicile size or fan following or a combination of those factors.

No doubt the world of college athletics is so different and will continue to evolve. Yet ISU continues to sit on its hands with its offerings and strategy that has been in place for decades…unfortunately that being a strategy/offering that has produced poor overall results. Time for ISU athletics to make some changes in offerings, strategy and operating efficiency.

 

[Seven]

- The Valley was the #9 ranked conference this season. Anyone posting that Grinnell is a future Valley member is either a troll or operating from a crazzymark level of intelligence. Either way, you forfeit all credibility.

- Bird Friend isn’t necessarily saying G5 schools will drop back down to FCS. He’s saying that if/when the P4 split off for football, G5 football loses essentially its entire value, basically becoming the new FCS and nullifying the benefits of moving up to G5 football. At that point, basketball schools like Western Kentucky will see no purpose to being in a conference from Delaware to New Mexico for strictly football reasons, and instead seek a better, regional basketball conference (MVC) with a similar caliber of football (MVFC).

 

[Aggie]

- The Valley was the #9 ranked conference this season. Anyone posting that Grinnell is a future Valley member is either a troll or operating from a crazzymark level of intelligence. Either way, you forfeit all credibility.

- Bird Friend isn’t necessarily saying G5 schools will drop back down to FCS. He’s saying that if/when the P4 split off for football, G5 football loses essentially its entire value, basically becoming the new FCS and nullifying the benefits of moving up to G5 football. At that point, basketball schools like Western Kentucky will see no purpose to being in a conference from Delaware to New Mexico for strictly football reasons, and instead seek a better, regional basketball conference (MVC) with a similar caliber of football (MVFC).

Agree with the above. You will probably have the “elites” with their own separate national championship and professional look and feel to their league and then Division 1, 2, and 3 with no FCS subdivision in division 1. Bowl games in football get incorporated into the elite college playoff division and the rest get NCAA playoffs. Basketball gets murkier but there will be continual realignment. Not that there isn’t realignment now, but the amount of money will change things on directions that may not even exist right now. Big questions like “are the elites going to share any of their revenue with the lower divisions”? What happens to the NCAA as all this moves forward? Does the elite college football division even play anyone from out of their league? More gambling revenue if you schedule more big name against big name games.