With Bison dominating and other top teams leaving, what's the future of FCS football

[Total Red]

The money is there for the move. There are schools that are playing football at the FBS level with budgets similar to ISUs. People forget that ISU had to make a pretty long list of facilities commitments to the MVC in order to get that invitation in '80. The point is that they weren't eager to extend the invite. ISU was viewed as having substandard facilities and a budget that would make it difficult to compete in the conference. To say we exceeded expectations is an understatement. Spack's up to the job. There will always be reasons to say it's too risky.

Which FBS schools have football budgets similar to Illinois State? If you're talking about overall athletic budgets, then you may be comparing Illinois State's athletic budget to schools that offer fewer sports. Which sports would you cut to increase the football budget?
What facility commitments did Illinois State make to get a MVC invite?

 

[StLRedbird]

Which FBS schools have football budgets similar to Illinois State? If you're talking about overall athletic budgets, then you may be comparing Illinois State's athletic budget to schools that offer fewer sports. Which sports would you cut to increase the football budget?
What facility commitments did Illinois State make to get a MVC invite?

Ball St 2020 budget $27M - Sports Sponsored: 19
Illinois St 2020 budget $27M - Sports Sponsored: 19

The media was never too clear about exactly what facilities improvements ISU needed to commit to. I recollect the old baseball field (where RA sits today) and track facilities being prominent issues. Oddly, I have absolutely no recollection of them wanting upgrades to Hancock despite the MVC sponsoring football at that time. Mainly I remember there being a pretty long list of facilities upgrades that the Valley insisted on. Would appreciate if others shared what they remember from then.

 

[Total Red]

Ah, Ball State again. As I stated before, if you want to go FBS it really helps to either 1) have a good-sized fan base or 2) have a SugarDaddy to help fund football. The late John Schuermann donated over 6 million dollars specifically for Ball State football related projects.

Illinois State has had opportunities to join the MAC but the MVC was chosen instead. Redbird Athletics joined the Valley in '81. It was considered to be the better basketball conference and basketball was driving the bus. Wichita St., Tulsa and Creighton were all good programs and Indiana St. had just played in the National Championship game in 1979. That was then and this is now. Many of our fans think the Valley won't be a very good basketball conference after Loyola leaves. Maybe, but they thought the same thing when Wichita St. and Creighton left. So we could try to join the MAC and the FBS but we're well behind schools like Ball St. when it comes to football facilities, so I'll ask you once again - do we really want to bring it weak to the FBS?

btw the new baseball stadium and the current outdoor track were added long after joining the Valley.

 

[StLRedbird]

*sigh*
Bowling Green 2020 budget $25M - Sports Sponsored: 18
Kent St 2020 budget $29M - Sports Sponsored: 19
NIU 2020 budget $22M - Sports Sponsored: 17

I don't recall a single soul in the Redbird Nation being disappointed with ISU getting the MVC invite in '80. It was the right move at the time. My point is that we were not considered "conference ready" and had facilities remediations that were required by the Valley.

If we keep the spending the $27M we have the way we do, we would absolutely be "bringing it weakly" to FBS.

 

[Total Red]

I don't recall a single soul in the Redbird Nation being disappointed with ISU getting the MVC invite in '80.

We agree on this. Redbird Nation wanted the Valley for basketball reasons. Illinois State athletics are the way they are due to interests.

My point is that we were not considered "conference ready" and had facilities remediations that were required by the Valley.

I'm willing to believe you but you haven't been able to name one. The baseball stadium and track came much later, but whatever.

If we keep the spending the $27M we have the way we do, we would absolutely be "bringing it weakly" to FBS.

Again we agree. If we try to go FBS under current conditions we would be bringing it weak. What sports do you propose receiving less funding to provide more for football?

 

[Birddog]

NCAA restructuring could get messy and nasty; and just how institutions like ISU adapt will be crucial to their athletic program’s survival if they want to keep at a similar level of funding and competition.

Or it could all be bureaucratic bluster with little to show in the end.

This SI article is a good read on the matter:

NCAA, college sports and a heated fight for the future - Sports Illustrated

Division I, much like the NCAA as a whole, is fractured. A drastic change to the system may be coming.

www.si.com

 

[cubird]

For some, there is never enough money.

 

[Yogi]

according to that si article sounds like the power 5 are getting ready to screw everyone else GREED

 

[Virginia Redbird]

I expect the Power 5 will go their own way and not too far down the road. There is just too much money not to.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

We do have an eSports program. One of the best in the country. Top 25 Schools For College Esports

 

[Bird Friend]

I expect the Power 5 will go their own way and not too far down the road. There is just too much money not to.

I’ve been saying this for years on the b-ball board. The argument about March Madness needing Cinderella has been undermined by announcers (mostly P5 grads) now labeling any team seeded 8+ and beating higher seeds as “Cinderellas”. They were calling Syracuse a Cinderella just a couple years ago.

The NIL recruiting battles are going to escalate quickly with players needing “agents” long before professional sports is even an option. The P5 will be so far ahead of anyone else it will be the new measure between the haves and have nots.

 

[Yogi]

they are already talking about taking away the auto qualifying of small conferences

 

[Redbird Ray is Back]

I am a big fan of the mac but ISU is not ready for the move up Lefts get better and dominate the MVFC

The MVFC is already pretty comparable to the MAC anyway per Sagarin and other ratings systems. We would compete just fine (assuming we get back to pre-Covid Spack ball).

 

[Redbird Ray is Back]

Those concerned about budgets, MAC/Sun Belt/CUSA schools get virtually all of their budget from three sources:
1. Pay games
2. Bowl allocations
3. Network TV money

If ISU made the jump, our athletic budget would be similarly funded and look comparable to the Ball State’s and directional Michigan’s of the world. Plus, the pay games would (assuming the current FBS structure remains in place) be more frequent (2-3 per year) and garner more profit than what we can get as an FCS pay game opponent.

As for fan interest, I’ve said this before. It literally does not matter. Every attendance figure you see in the G5 is total BS.

As the initial article points out, FCS football is falling apart. There’s no reason whatsoever to stay behind. Frankly, there hasn’t been for decades.

 

[Birddog]

Those concerned about budgets, MAC/Sun Belt/CUSA schools get virtually all of their budget from three sources:
1. Pay games
2. Bowl allocations
3. Network TV money

If ISU made the jump, our athletic budget would be similarly funded and look comparable to the Ball State’s and directional Michigan’s of the world. Plus, the pay games would (assuming the current FBS structure remains in place) be more frequent (2-3 per year) and garner more profit than what we can get as an FCS pay game opponent.

As for fan interest, I’ve said this before. It literally does not matter. Every attendance figure you see in the G5 is total BS.

As the initial article points out, FCS football is falling apart. There’s no reason whatsoever to stay behind. Frankly, there hasn’t been for decades.

Good points.

It is my understanding that G5 schools will often have boosters and/or businesses buy blocks of tickets to reach an attendance goal even though many tickets go unused. If you look at attendance records, it is a mystery how some MAC schools maintain their status. I think the NCAA doesn’t really care about the rule.

All of this could change with new classifications and subdivisions.

 

[Total Red]

Those concerned about budgets, MAC/Sun Belt/CUSA schools get virtually all of their budget from three sources:
1. Pay games
2. Bowl allocations
3. Network TV money

If ISU made the jump, our athletic budget would be similarly funded and look comparable to the Ball State’s and directional Michigan’s of the world. Plus, the pay games would (assuming the current FBS structure remains in place) be more frequent (2-3 per year) and garner more profit than what we can get as an FCS pay game opponent.

As for fan interest, I’ve said this before. It literally does not matter. Every attendance figure you see in the G5 is total BS.

As the initial article points out, FCS football is falling apart. There’s no reason whatsoever to stay behind. Frankly, there hasn’t been for decades.

Those 3 do not account for virtually all of the athletic budgets. Student fees probably account for around 20% or more.
I agree that the attendance figures that the MAC puts out are BS. Anyone who watches Tues or Wed night games can see that, but that doesn't mean that attendance isn't important. Boise St. is on solid ground as a G5 and attendance is an important part of that foundation.

What about facilities? Are they an important consideration? Where do you see that funding coming from?

 

[MadBird]

I've been meaning to post this link, kind of an interesting commentary on football attendance. Not sure if it's behind a paywall, I think you should be able to access it. The long and short of it -- Wisconsin had 19% of distributed tickets unused during the 2021 season, the most in the last 15 seasons. The average number of "scanned tickets" in the 80,000+ seat stadium - 57,548. The average "announced" attendance - 73,466.

Here's how many people didn't use their tickets to Wisconsin football home games in 2021

Explore an interactive graphic showing trends for Badgers football attendance since 2006.

madison.com

 

[isuquinndog]

I've been meaning to post this link, kind of an interesting commentary on football attendance. Not sure if it's behind a paywall, I think you should be able to access it. The long and short of it -- Wisconsin had 19% of distributed tickets unused during the 2021 season, the most in the last 15 seasons. The average number of "scanned tickets" in the 80,000+ seat stadium - 57,548. The average "announced" attendance - 73,466.

Here's how many people didn't use their tickets to Wisconsin football home games in 2021

Explore an interactive graphic showing trends for Badgers football attendance since 2006.

madison.com

Its behind a pay wall

 

[dpdoughbird06]

Its behind a pay wall

I was able to read it.

Wisconsin athletics is interviewing no-shows - students and community alike - to figure out why they’re not going in. But that’s the trend.

I wonder if the tipping point may have been when cellular streaming became a viable way to set up a TV and watch the game from your tailgate (the CindyGate neighbors have done this multiple times rather than go in, and I’d imagine they are not alone).

 

[StLRedbird]

StLRedbird said:
My point is that we were not considered "conference ready" and had facilities remediations that were required by the Valley.
I'm willing to believe you but you haven't been able to name one. The baseball stadium and track came much later, but whatever.

Not really. The improvements to "Redbird Field" were made and put under the plow by RA. The field moved to it's current location and was considered worse. Future upgrades made it into a very good facility. The track problem that the Valley had with us was the inadequacy of the indoor facility while basketball was being hosted in Horton. It was not a trivial task to take down and put up the bleachers that surrounded the court. The remediation was RA. It is confounding to me that you find this to be a bone worth picking. Every school that has joined the Valley has had facilities remediations, some more than others. Ours were on the heavy side, but if you recollect differently, whatever.

StLRedbird said:
If we keep the spending the $27M we have the way we do, we would absolutely be "bringing it weakly" to FBS.
Again we agree. If we try to go FBS under current conditions we would be bringing it weak. What sports do you propose receiving less funding to provide more for football?

I dunno. I do know that you can't conjure money out of thin air. I place a high priority on football at ISU. In the 80s and 90s I thought we should drop the sport due to lack of money. Berry changed my thinking. The priority placed on football by the media and all college conferences outside of the BE, A10, and MVC cemented it. The success of MVC schools that didn't play football made me suspicious of whether that was the right place for us. But what do I know?

That said, I'll repeat what I've said here many times. ISU puts a very high quality product on the field. The MVFC has every bit as good a product as can be found in the G5, and often better. I'm going to continue rooting for the football 'birds 'til the day I die. ISU is better off in FBS and has the money to do it.

I've answered all of your questions, but have just one for you. What level of spending would it take to not "bring it weakly"?