vs Northern Iowa - 3/2/2023 - 12:00 PM - MVC TV (BSIN/BSKC/BSMW/BSS/BSSE/NBCSCH)

[gobirds85]

It's clear that this team needs a giant coke machine of a man in the middle. He doesn't necessarily have the have the quickest feet out there, after all this is the Valley, but he needs to take up space and not get bumped off the blocks. Our big men are simple not "big" enough. The Valley is usually ruled by guard play but a "big" big in the middle would do wonders for our game. Just my .01.

 

[BirdFan10]

It's clear that this team needs a giant coke machine of a man in the middle. He doesn't necessarily have the have the quickest feet out there, after all this is the Valley, but he needs to take up space and not get bumped off the blocks. Our big men are simple not "big" enough. The Valley is usually ruled by guard play but a "big" big in the middle would do wonders for our game. Just my .01.

So you're excited for Chase Walker?

 

[Reggie1857]

So you're excited for Chase Walker?

I know I am, probably moreso than any recruit in several years

 

[Aggie]

Did not mean to upset anyone by asking three successful coaches that are not as close to the situation what their opinions were on ISU basketball. I guess I wanted an opinion and I know when it comes to ISU I sometimes wear rose colored glasses.

One made a statement that I thought summed it up. “You have not been to the NCAA tournament in years, That should be your goal. No one will take you serious until you go to the tournament.” I know that will upset some here, but this is the same guy who said if you cannot do the little things correctly how will you ever do the big things. Been a long time since ISU has been to the “dance”. He also said “you need to build a team that can win three games in a row in St.Louis. Only way you get to the tournament is win your conference tournament.” He went on to add, “your 2017 team didn’t make the tournament”. “Win in St. Louis is what you need to build for.”

My retired from job let me interact with people from all over the country especially the Midwest. They would sit around and talk sports. Mainly Big 10 and SEC but others from all over. Occasionally North Dakota State and their dominance in “division 2”, their quotes not mine would be mentioned. Last few years South Dakota State in the right crowd would come up. Never is ISU mentioned. Or as a good friend who graduated from Purdue and is somewhat familiar with Illinois State said “ If your school doesn’t show up in the 64 nobody knows who you are.

ISU to be relevant in midwestern sports needs to go to the NCAA Tournament. I could disagree with them on how they see the valley but that is how they see things. Another one of them asked “is ISU the longest team in the valley from making the tournament?” I am not throwing in the towel or giving up. ALL I am asking for is a little respect and that is Make The Dam Dance.

It also pains me to see lots of ISU graduates wearing Illinois or other college teams sweatshirts and jackets. Why is that? I think we all know. ISU desperately needs to get to the dance then repeat going to the dance. And, it looks to me we first have to position ourselves so we only play three games at St. Louis and then win three games. Exiting on Thursday is not a recipe for success. I will completely give a pass to current management due to the shape this program was in. We can blame what happened in the past and dwell on all that, but I am looking forward. I just asked some very knowledgeable people what the take was and it was disappointing to say the least. For ISU to be relevant this has to be turned around and it appears to me talking to them.

Dancing on a consistent basis in men’s basketball and not just making the football playoffs but consistently winning at least a couple games.

Ok, my rant is over I will come back to reality and figure I will be posting something similar next year.

 

[Manchester Matt]

Did not mean to upset anyone by asking three successful coaches that are not as close to the situation what their opinions were on ISU basketball. I guess I wanted an opinion and I know when it comes to ISU I sometimes wear rose colored glasses.

One made a statement that I thought summed it up. “You have not been to the NCAA tournament in years, That should be your goal. No one will take you serious until you go to the tournament.” I know that will upset some here, but this is the same guy who said if you cannot do the little things correctly how will you ever do the big things. Been a long time since ISU has been to the “dance”. He also said “you need to build a team that can win three games in a row in St.Louis. Only way you get to the tournament is win your conference tournament.” He went on to add, “your 2017 team didn’t make the tournament”. “Win in St. Louis is what you need to build for.”

My retired from job let me interact with people from all over the country especially the Midwest. They would sit around and talk sports. Mainly Big 10 and SEC but others from all over. Occasionally North Dakota State and their dominance in “division 2”, their quotes not mine would be mentioned. Last few years South Dakota State in the right crowd would come up. Never is ISU mentioned. Or as a good friend who graduated from Purdue and is somewhat familiar with Illinois State said “ If your school doesn’t show up in the 64 nobody knows who you are.

ISU to be relevant in midwestern sports needs to go to the NCAA Tournament. I could disagree with them on how they see the valley but that is how they see things. Another one of them asked “is ISU the longest team in the valley from making the tournament?” I am not throwing in the towel or giving up. ALL I am asking for is a little respect and that is Make The Dam Dance.

It also pains me to see lots of ISU graduates wearing Illinois or other college teams sweatshirts and jackets. Why is that? I think we all know. ISU desperately needs to get to the dance then repeat going to the dance. And, it looks to me we first have to position ourselves so we only play three games at St. Louis and then win three games. Exiting on Thursday is not a recipe for success. I will completely give a pass to current management due to the shape this program was in. We can blame what happened in the past and dwell on all that, but I am looking forward. I just asked some very knowledgeable people what the take was and it was disappointing to say the least. For ISU to be relevant this has to be turned around and it appears to me talking to them.

Dancing on a consistent basis in men’s basketball and not just making the football playoffs but consistently winning at least a couple games.

Ok, my rant is over I will come back to reality and figure I will be posting something similar next year.

No problem with their opinions, but are these guys high school coaches, college coaches? Have they seen the three new recruits, which according to many not affiliated with ISU, is a strong class? It's easy to look at the current roster and make these observations. But your friends, nor anyone here, has a clue what the final rosters for all 12 teams will look like next year at this point.

It's obviously been a while, too damn long, since this team has made the dance, and nobody here is debating that.

 

[ISU86]

I think we’re the first team eliminated from the postseason?
Glass is half full…Pedon gets first dibs on recruiting

First MVC team, yes - First D-I team, no (Bellarmine, Florida Gulf Coast on Monday).

 

[Hamdonger]

Finally a post about kids playing together. Finally someone else notice the lack of playing together by this team. When the offense is so much one-on-one there is no playing together. Once again though that’s what this roster kind of produced, that’s the style the talent allowed to play out. Also playing together is on the players and pretty much not the coach. That’s why recruiting his type of kids are Coach P’s biggest need right now. Plus that’s all about Basketball IQ. Sometimes you can be a huge post player and get away without having a good basketball IQ. Size alone can open up space for teammates and that can have you on the floor. A wing player that can shoot the 3 well but have no midrange but can get to the rim and free throw line at a high clip should be getting just below the free throw line and then kicking out to a teammate. If not defenses will collapse and cause lots of turnovers. Playing this way is playing with a high Basketball IQ. Guards need to be on the High Basketball IQ to have a really good team in general. Both guard spots should actually look to pass first, especially the pg. All it takes is for one player to be out of position offensive and the whole play is blown up. Trust me trust trust me that happen omg I’m gonna be generous here probably 60% of the time. So yeah you’re gonna have lots of one-on-one possessions there’s no getting around that. I will say again. I think Pedon did a good job with these kids.

Pops...you've handled this place way better than I ever would have handled it. I think you're crazy for being here, which makes you a much bigger man than me...character-wise. Big props to you. BIG. Finish strong on your degree, friend.

BTW...I met your son in person. Nothing but a gentleman and I believe his future is stupid bright!! There are certain kids you want to see succeed huge...and he's one of them.

 

[Aggie]

I think they were looking and I asked them to look longer term. Past performance probably played into the future projections. One, his high school team, he was starting center won the state tournament, another played big twelve football and has coached long time, another just retired from his work, went home to farm, his father passed away was asked to coach local little junior high teams and his 7th grade team just got fourth place in state tournament. He is also an ISU alumnus. They were all very very good at their “day” jobs. The football guy says to be relevant ISU needs to become the “Rochester or Sacred Heart Griffin” of the valley and subsequently the Midwest mid majors. He said ISU has a huge climb to become that. He also mentioned ISU was on the edge of that when Donewald was here, lost it came close again with Stallings but never recovered from our fall. He also mentioned that ISU just has to be relevant in the Valley for the immediate future. He said “your first goal should be avoid Thursday”. Second goal is “consistently win 20 games”. Then he said “you have to win your tournament consistently.” He said NIT is not a goal just a consolation prize. He went on to add “ win tournament 4 out of 10 years and you may get an occasional free pass if you stub your toe in the conference tournament.”
I would like to believe these are the types of goals our administration has. I believe at least the fans on this forum do.

 

[Popsto4]

Pops...you've handled this place way better than I ever would have handled it. I think you're crazy for being here, which makes you a much bigger man than me...character-wise. Big props to you. BIG. Finish strong on your degree, friend.

BTW...I met your son in person. Nothing but a gentleman and I believe his future is stupid bright!! There are certain kids you want to see succeed huge...and he's one of them.

It’s the intangibles that doesn’t show up in any stat book. During the season I’ve used words or phrases like Basketball IQ, Seeing The Floor, Mental, Strength and Selfish just to name a few. No one really understand how much Mal sacrificed his game this year. That’s the type of person he is on and off the court. At the end of the day the fans wants an undefeated season year in and year out. Thank you for this post but no, I’m not a bigger man than you are. I’m just a man.

 

[Bird Friend]

Seems to me that Aggie’s friends aren’t saying anything most of us don’t already know deep in our gut. Pedon’s message to recruits of “hey this school was great, but we’ve lost the way. We need to get back on track and remind people of who we’re are. And you’re just the kind of player that can do that for us” will resonate with some kids, especially one’s feeling slighted by the P5s. Will they stay four years? That will depend.

If the kid can see a chance for ISU to be a team to reckon with, he’s a lot more likely to stick. If he sees us floundering and the kid has potential, he’s more likely to seek higher ground. Also, trust and loyalty will be huge. Kids will also stick with coaches who have their backs. Pedon seems to have that quality. He also doesn’t seem to have any desire to go after the Yarbrough type player, and that will help build trust among the players themselves.

Can Pedon get us there? I think he has the right skills, attitude and personality to do so. Will he get us there? That’s a different calculus entirely. The one question mark seems to be his in game coaching. If you don’t make the right moves at the right times . . . well, winning becomes harder.

 

[stielowp]

Can't defend the back screens. Might as well play zone.

How many times have we played zone this year? You would think it would almost be a necessity with a 6-man rotation. Muller used to use it and it was pretty effective as a change of pace. Instead, everyone just schemes to pick us apart. You can't tell me that McCheese wouldn't be a better zone defender than he is man-to-man! He is a huge liability on man-to-man in the post and outside. Biggest play of the game is when he let Born just step back and drain a 3.

 

[stielowp]

Folks, you realize that...is...A LOT, right?? Our returnees...whoever they are...HAVE to get better. Our nucleus who might be coming back won 6 games in Valley. Six. And its not like they were freshman. We're not going to get better if these guys don't learn to play together, better, without so much isolation basketball. Our Coach has to get better...he may end up learning more from this season than any other season in which he's ever been associated with basketball. That's my hope, anyway. And...if he's not going to play guys who might be coming back, get 'em out of here so he can get guys that he thinks can contribute to his style...whatever that is. We've got a heck of a lot of ground to make up. In my mind, "we've got a long way to go, and a short time to get there..."

Good news is...the ISU program has done it before.

I wouldn't expect a lot of improvement from the guys on this team that do return. Like you said, these are not freshman, most have been in college now 3 to 4 years. The truth is they have probably already reached their highest potential. Our only path for improvement will be what comes in to replace what we have.

 

[Hamdonger]

Can Pedon get us there? I think he has the right skills, attitude and personality to do so. Will he get us there? That’s a different calculus entirely. The one question mark seems to be his in game coaching. If you don’t make the right moves at the right times . . . well, winning becomes harder.

First, I really like Coach and I'm glad he's here. I did feel like the more the season went on, the more green he looked as a head coach. We were disjointed as a team for most if not all the year, and it seemed to me that there was a good amount of indecisiveness involved. There are many reasons why this off-season is huge. I fully anticipate he'll be better and I'm definitely looking forward to it.

 

[Hamdonger]

Probably the wrong category but I'll bring it up here too cause ive been thinking about it. I haven't read any posts in the 'Next Year's Team" thread...but I know this. We have a crowded infield at this point. Poindexter, Burford, Kazooks, Pence, and Kinzinger, for starters. Making an assumption here that potentially we'll get 10-20 min a games from the freshman. Gang I wouldn't be surprised to see one of our returning guards leave.

Cause if for some reason Kinzinger can run the show most of the time (still not convinced as a freshman that he can but I AM hoping)...that's a lot of guys off the ball. WHICH I LIKE but minutes will be sacrificed. Will our players accept that?

 

[dpdoughbird06]

Probably the wrong category but I'll bring it up here too cause ive been thinking about it. I haven't read any posts in the 'Next Year's Team" thread...but I know this. We have a crowded infield at this point. Poindexter, Burford, Kazooks, Pence, and Kinzinger, for starters. Making an assumption here that potentially we'll get 10-20 min a games from the freshman. Gang I wouldn't be surprised to see one of our returning guards leave.

Cause if for some reason Kinzinger can run the show most of the time (still not convinced as a freshman that he can but I AM hoping)...that's a lot of guys off the ball. WHICH I LIKE but minutes will be sacrificed. Will our players accept that?

If enough guys take leaps in development of what they can do, you can play small at three positions assuming Lewis at the 4 and a legit big in the middle.

You still want to bring in a wing or two to replace Seneca, but if the smaller guys hit their shots and show a nose for the ball there’s room for three of them on the floor.

Bring in the most talent you can, and figure out how it all fits together. After watching Drake destroy us on senior night by being mind-synced with their passes going exactly where they knew their teammate would be, give me some continuity of holdovers having played together as part of this rebuild.

 

[Manchester Matt]

Probably the wrong category but I'll bring it up here too cause ive been thinking about it. I haven't read any posts in the 'Next Year's Team" thread...but I know this. We have a crowded infield at this point. Poindexter, Burford, Kazooks, Pence, and Kinzinger, for starters. Making an assumption here that potentially we'll get 10-20 min a games from the freshman. Gang I wouldn't be surprised to see one of our returning guards leave.

Cause if for some reason Kinzinger can run the show most of the time (still not convinced as a freshman that he can but I AM hoping)...that's a lot of guys off the ball. WHICH I LIKE but minutes will be sacrificed. Will our players accept that?

I'd be absolutely SHOCKED if any of those guys leave. Shit happens. Look at the lack of depth this year. Sandage went down, and we basically were running walk-ons out there at the guard position every night. These guys were playing 35-40 minutes a game. We played seven guys yesterday. Pedon will figure it out.

 

[MadBird]

MuEller ≠ Muller

KinziNger ≠ Kinziger

 

[jwa123]

Did not mean to upset anyone by asking three successful coaches that are not as close to the situation what their opinions were on ISU basketball. I guess I wanted an opinion and I know when it comes to ISU I sometimes wear rose colored glasses.

One made a statement that I thought summed it up. “You have not been to the NCAA tournament in years, That should be your goal. No one will take you serious until you go to the tournament.” I know that will upset some here, but this is the same guy who said if you cannot do the little things correctly how will you ever do the big things. Been a long time since ISU has been to the “dance”. He also said “you need to build a team that can win three games in a row in St.Louis. Only way you get to the tournament is win your conference tournament.” He went on to add, “your 2017 team didn’t make the tournament”. “Win in St. Louis is what you need to build for.”

My retired from job let me interact with people from all over the country especially the Midwest. They would sit around and talk sports. Mainly Big 10 and SEC but others from all over. Occasionally North Dakota State and their dominance in “division 2”, their quotes not mine would be mentioned. Last few years South Dakota State in the right crowd would come up. Never is ISU mentioned. Or as a good friend who graduated from Purdue and is somewhat familiar with Illinois State said “ If your school doesn’t show up in the 64 nobody knows who you are.

ISU to be relevant in midwestern sports needs to go to the NCAA Tournament. I could disagree with them on how they see the valley but that is how they see things. Another one of them asked “is ISU the longest team in the valley from making the tournament?” I am not throwing in the towel or giving up. ALL I am asking for is a little respect and that is Make The Dam Dance.

It also pains me to see lots of ISU graduates wearing Illinois or other college teams sweatshirts and jackets. Why is that? I think we all know. ISU desperately needs to get to the dance then repeat going to the dance. And, it looks to me we first have to position ourselves so we only play three games at St. Louis and then win three games. Exiting on Thursday is not a recipe for success. I will completely give a pass to current management due to the shape this program was in. We can blame what happened in the past and dwell on all that, but I am looking forward. I just asked some very knowledgeable people what the take was and it was disappointing to say the least. For ISU to be relevant this has to be turned around and it appears to me talking to them.

Dancing on a consistent basis in men’s basketball and not just making the football playoffs but consistently winning at least a couple games.

Ok, my rant is over I will come back to reality and figure I will be posting something similar next year.

If you are referring to me being upset, then I apologize for leaving that impression. I wasn’t upset I just disagreed with the premise. While your coaching friend‘s opinions are worthy of discussion that doesn’t mean they are infallible.

Before ISU took over the title of Thursday MVC playoff games as the ISU Invitational it was known as the Bradley Invitational for several years running. I liked Geno Ford but he was Bradley’s version of our previous coach. Unfortunately Wardle has done a nice job of bringing Bradley back but about 8 years ago I suspect your coaching friends would have said about Bradley what they told you about ISU.

When Jank was hired the program was down. I felt he would do a nice job with the program and he did a reasonable job of doing that. I have the same feeling about Pedon and perhaps he can do an even better job than Jank.

Lets give this some time before we start nailing down the coffin.

 

[Sladerunningbear]

I’m not one to complain, but I didn’t drive 2 1/2 hours to see the Sugar Bears perform in art smocks and Bermuda shorts. I know, I know, they are building up to a crescendo, so I will be patient. That being said, I did discuss this with them in our suite and they said just wait for the grand finale…so stay tuned. Also, for the Bradley fans stopping by our suite, those aren’t chips on the table…they are nachos.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Seems to me that Aggie’s friends aren’t saying anything most of us don’t already know deep in our gut. Pedon’s message to recruits of “hey this school was great, but we’ve lost the way. We need to get back on track and remind people of who we’re are. And you’re just the kind of player that can do that for us” will resonate with some kids, especially one’s feeling slighted by the P5s. Will they stay four years? That will depend.

If the kid can see a chance for ISU to be a team to reckon with, he’s a lot more likely to stick. If he sees us floundering and the kid has potential, he’s more likely to seek higher ground. Also, trust and loyalty will be huge. Kids will also stick with coaches who have their backs. Pedon seems to have that quality. He also doesn’t seem to have any desire to go after the Yarbrough type player, and that will help build trust among the players themselves.

Can Pedon get us there? I think he has the right skills, attitude and personality to do so. Will he get us there? That’s a different calculus entirely. The one question mark seems to be his in game coaching. If you don’t make the right moves at the right times . . . well, winning becomes harder.

I know it’s subjective, but I’m always curious what drives recruits to a certain school.
For example, is playing time is more important than being part of a winning culture? If so, ISU should have their pick of the litter.