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fourthandshort

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Caveat to this: your assumptions about records in those other conferences are only true if you maintain the same type of recruits. But if we’re in those other conferences, do we get the same recruits?
Agreed, for sure. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

My point had to do with judging Spack's W-L record and playoff results in the proper context .. degree of difficulty. And are we sure there's someone out there who will take this job and can do better playing in the MVFC. Some harp on his record excluding 2014 and 2015. but he has also had very good teams in 2011, 2012, 2016, and 2019. IMO, he's had 6 very good teams since he got here. The 2011 team clearly deserved a bid and didn't get one. The 2016 team should have beat UCA and made it to quarters that year .. would have been 5 times in top 8, in 10 years, if so. The 2019 team gave NDSU their toughest game by far .. and we had no pass game.

And based on W-L record alone, every MVFC team should be firing their coaches every 2-3 years, except NDSU and SDSU. Funny how some SDSU fans also keep calling for their Head Coach Stig to be fired because they can't get over the NDSU hump ... now that's stupid, they have a top 5-10 program almost every year. We're not there, but most would view ISU has the 4th best MVFC program over the last decade. 2020 didn't happen, and we tooks some roster hits in 2021 trying to recover from pandemic. 2019 wasn't that long ago given pandemic hits we took.

Bottom line .. I'm just not convinced, we can easily replace Spack and win more games. His time will come to an end. I just don't think were there yet.

Figure out the pass game .. and better things will happen. For now, get ready for EIU and start building for MVFC grind.
 
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Redbird

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Grass aint always greener. So if the AD fires Spack, and the next guys does worse, Then President needs to think about firing the AD for a bad hire, or maybe a bad fire .. and we're back to square one longing for Spack days.
I respect you and your knowledge but in this case our grass isn't green. This program has stalled. The fanbase has stalled. Where you at the game/tailgate this past saturday? G83 was a ghost town. I have never felt so "meh" about a team. We almost got beat by Valpo. I know Brock is the greatest FB coach we have ever had but he isn't the guy anymore. Since Tre and Marshaun left we are:

2016 6-6, 4-4, 1st round loss (a game we should have won)
2017 6-5, 4-4, No playoffs
2018 6-5, 3-5, No playoffs
2019 10-5, 5-3, Quarters
2020 1-3, 1-3
2021 4-7, 2-6, No playoffs
2022 1-1

Tell me that we are trending in the right direction. Tell me you can look at that data and honestly say we are doing the right things. 2014/2015 were lightning in a bottle. Yes, I know there were a lot of turmoil and transfers in COVID but why didn't we get transfers? If we are over .500 this season I will come back and personally apologize to this board but I still won't be satisfied with ANOTHER 6-5 season.
 

TBS_20

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Anyone who wants to keep Spack is just someone who settle for mediocrity. Get rid of him and see if we can get someone better. If not try again. No reason to settle for mediocrity
 

fourthandshort

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I respect you and your knowledge but in this case our grass isn't green. This program has stalled. The fanbase has stalled. Where you at the game/tailgate this past saturday? G83 was a ghost town. I have never felt so "meh" about a team. We almost got beat by Valpo. I know Brock is the greatest FB coach we have ever had but he isn't the guy anymore. Since Tre and Marshaun left we are:

2016 6-6, 4-4, 1st round loss (a game we should have won)
2017 6-5, 4-4, No playoffs
2018 6-5, 3-5, No playoffs
2019 10-5, 5-3, Quarters
2020 1-3, 1-3
2021 4-7, 2-6, No playoffs
2022 1-1

Tell me that we are trending in the right direction. Tell me you can look at that data and honestly say we are doing the right things. 2014/2015 were lightning in a bottle. Yes, I know there were a lot of turmoil and transfers in COVID but why didn't we get transfers? If we are over .500 this season I will come back and personally apologize to this board but I still won't be satisfied with ANOTHER 6-5 season.
Not denying the trend line isn't good, though I'm giving a mulligan for 2021, sping and fall, plus calling it one season. We lost too much from the 2019 squad. If we had played the fall 2020 season, I am quite certain it would have been a strong season with most of the defense back .. granted JR gone .. but I think we could have competed .. noone else had left going into the fall .. then the bottom fell out of our roster when fal got canceled.

But yes, Spack needs a good season. I'm just saying you don't fire your best coach ever just yet. And the 2019 season is evidence he can still coach .. except for the pass game.
 

MadBird

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That situation began with the sudden and unexpected departure of OC Beathard. I don't have any inside information on this, but I think that event was followed by pressure to make a minority hire at OC, preferably from within. One half of the Co-coord position went to a minority. I believe it was one of those compromises that satisfied no one.

Does that mean that the Redbird teams under of the direction of Co-Coordinators on offense weren't real Redbird football teams? I'm slow to align myself with those types of statements. I'm from the Bill Parcells school of thought - "You are what your record says you are."

Having said that, I'm glad that the Co-coord era is over and I'm really hoping for an offensive breakout against Eastern.
Going back a few days, just wondering if there's confusion here - Humdinger said he was concerned about the 2017 co-coordinator situation. Beathard was the OC in 2015, left before 16, and Spack chose co-coordinators to replace him for 2016 and 2017. But the co-OC's chosen appear to both be Caucasian (Dan Clark and Billy Dicken). Beathard returned in 2018, coached in 18 and 19, and then "left" suddenly before the 2020 season. Very suddenly, very before. That may have been when there was pressure for a minority hire? And neither of the guys chosen had much experience , regardless of their heritage. In fact, didn't other coaches leave before that season, including maybe a more experienced minority coach or two, who might have been more effective? Anyway . . . .
 

MadBird

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I'm watching SIU vs. NU. And I spose if you were an NU fan right now, you might have HC Pat Fitzgerald on your "sh*t list". But, bear with me -- Fitzgerald is regularly mentioned for all kinds of other jobs, NFL, Michigan if Harbaugh moved on, etc. Everybody likes the former linebacker, hard nose guy, feisty, etc. Most would say he's pulled his old alma mater out of the dark forest of college football. Would you fire Fitz?

Fitz's W/L record since 2009 is 90-72, or 55.5%. He's had 3 seasons with 10 or more wins. 1 8 win season. 3 7 win seasons. 5 losing seasons. Record since 2018 is 13-20.

For comparison sake, Coach X's W/L record since 2009 is 89-60, or 59.7%. He's had 3 seasons with 10 or more wins. 1 9 win season. 1 7 win season. 3 losing seasons (including the spring covid season). Record since 2018 is 15-15.

Would you fire Coach X?

I realize comparisons are difficult. But interesting, isn't it?
 

Total Red

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Going back a few days, just wondering if there's confusion here - Humdinger said he was concerned about the 2017 co-coordinator situation. Beathard was the OC in 2015, left before 16, and Spack chose co-coordinators to replace him for 2016 and 2017. But the co-OC's chosen appear to both be Caucasian (Dan Clark and Billy Dicken). Beathard returned in 2018, coached in 18 and 19, and then "left" suddenly before the 2020 season. Very suddenly, very before. That may have been when there was pressure for a minority hire? And neither of the guys chosen had much experience , regardless of their heritage. In fact, didn't other coaches leave before that season, including maybe a more experienced minority coach or two, who might have been more effective? Anyway . . . .
Good catch Mad. My mind went to the more recent co-coord setup and I missed the reference to 2017. The comments still apply though as neither co- coord situation worked that well.
 

Virginia Redbird

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Good catch Mad. My mind went to the more recent co-coord setup and I missed the reference to 2017. The comments still apply though as neither co- coord situation worked that well.
Just my opinion but it was not that the co-coordinator situations did not work well. They were utter disasters, particularly the most recent version.
 

Dmills

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Nice upset for Valpo today against traditional PFL "power" in San Diego. San Diego appears to be having a down year. Valpo came in as 7.5 point underdogs.
 
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