South Dakota 10/23

Total Red

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Was SD QB Camp getting knocked out of the game a key to winning? No one can say for sure because we don't know what would have happened. All we know for sure is that Illinois State was ahead 10-0 when he left the game. The first 3 drives for USD ended in punts and the fourth one ended when Camp fumbled the ball away, so 4 possessions and zero points with Camp in the game. After that who knows? Yes we have blown leads before, but we had Camp completely contained during the time he was in there.

Camp's injury wasn't just bad luck. USD uses their QBs like RBs. They don't hook slide, they go for extra yardage. Even after losing their starting QB, backup QB Senstrom made some daring runs for good gains. He finished with 6 carries for 44 yards. Camp had 3 carries for 6 yards and a fumble.
 

redbirdfan04

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Is there some new law that prohibits throwing to tight ends?

Never thought I’d say this, but bubble screen actually worked several times
Well the Redbirds have had an issue with throwing to the TE for decades! It might actually be a law.
 

Bird Friend

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Was SD QB Camp getting knocked out of the game a key to winning? No one can say for sure because we don't know what would have happened. All we know for sure is that Illinois State was ahead 10-0 when he left the game. The first 3 drives for USD ended in punts and the fourth one ended when Camp fumbled the ball away, so 4 possessions and zero points with Camp in the game. After that who knows? Yes we have blown leads before, but we had Camp completely contained during the time he was in there.

Camp's injury wasn't just bad luck. USD uses their QBs like RBs. They don't hook slide, they go for extra yardage. Even after losing their starting QB, backup QB Senstrom made some daring runs for good gains. He finished with 6 carries for 44 yards. Camp had 3 carries for 6 yards and a fumble.
First 4 possessions for SD in the spring game: punt, blocked FG, punt, punt . . . just saying . . .
 

fourthandshort

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Is there some new law that prohibits throwing to tight ends?

Never thought I’d say this, but bubble screen actually worked several times
last couple years, we've done ok in terms of targeting the Tight Ends. But I think there are still some coaches at ISU that think TE only stands for Tackle Eligible.
 

Total Red

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First 4 possessions for SD in the spring game: punt, blocked FG, punt, punt . . . just saying . . .
Camp settled down and played better after that in Feb, that's true, but Camp/South Dakota doesn't come back and win that game without 7 turnovers from the Redbird offense. Jefferson and the Redbird offense played a clean game Saturday with zero turnovers. If you don't keep handing him gifts then Camp is a QB the Redbird D can handle...imho...
 

StLRedbird

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I thought the play calling on offense was pretty good. The announcers even remarked during the first half about how balanced the attack was and how it had the USD defense on its heals.

I watched the game a second time, looking for differences in the play calling between the first and second halves. What I was expecting to see was an offense that went very conservative and that would be at least partially responsible for the lack of points in the second half. Instead, what I saw was an offense that had execution problems. If it wasn't a false start, it was holding. If it wasn't holding it was a fumbled snap. Execution problems ended most of our 2nd half drives, including the one that started after the Camp fumble deep in USD territory.

That said, boy we throw a ton of wide receiver screens. I'd really like to see more north-south passing.
 

fourthandshort

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I thought the play calling on offense was pretty good. The announcers even remarked during the first half about how balanced the attack was and how it had the USD defense on its heals.

I watched the game a second time, looking for differences in the play calling between the first and second halves. What I was expecting to see was an offense that went very conservative and that would be at least partially responsible for the lack of points in the second half. Instead, what I saw was an offense that had execution problems. If it wasn't a false start, it was holding. If it wasn't holding it was a fumbled snap. Execution problems ended most of our 2nd half drives, including the one that started after the Camp fumble deep in USD territory.

That said, boy we throw a ton of wide receiver screens. I'd really like to see more north-south passing.
Good insights !

I can add one bit of info on pass play calling this week ... trying to rebuild Jefferson's confidence maybe ?

  • NDSU game .. Jefferson was 4 of 19, 2 picks, 40 yards .. 10 per catch, 2.1 per attempt
  • USD game .. Jefferson was 14 of 19, 0 picks, 84 yards .. 6 per catch, 4.4 per attempt
 

Bird Friend

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Camp settled down and played better after that in Feb, that's true, but Camp/South Dakota doesn't come back and win that game without 7 turnovers from the Redbird offense. Jefferson and the Redbird offense played a clean game Saturday with zero turnovers. If you don't keep handing him gifts then Camp is a QB the Redbird D can handle...imho...
Maybe they do . . . maybe they don't. You can't point to a 4 possession subset of the game and claim things would continue as they were. I've seen too many game change completely after the first few possessions. Conversely, the Birds struggled offensively in the 2nd half. In both cases, execution on offense after initial good play was a problem. We won this week because our D scored for us in the 2nd half on a pick 6. Does Camp throw that? Without that score, the Birds probably lose 'cuz they probably don't score in the 2nd half. I'm reasonably certain Camp could've gotten the same score Stenstrom got, and quite probably more once he settled in to the game.
 

Total Red

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You can't point to a 4 possession subset of the game and claim things would continue as they were. I've seen too many game change completely after the first few possessions.
I never said things would continue as they were. Read more carefully - I said - "After that who knows?"

Neither of us knows what would have happened. I'm not saying Camp would not make a difference but I take issue with those that imply he would because you don't know either. We can both post info that suggests one way or another (I've got more if you want it), but the bottom line is neither of us knows. The Redbirds Won, Cole Mueller is the MVFC Player and Newcomer of the Week. That's what we know.
 

MadBird

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I never said things would continue as they were. Read more carefully - I said - "After that who knows?"

Neither of us knows what would have happened. I'm not saying Camp would not make a difference but I take issue with those that imply he would because you don't know either. We can both post info that suggests one way or another (I've got more if you want it), but the bottom line is neither of us knows. The Redbirds Won, Cole Mueller is the MVFC Player and Newcomer of the Week. That's what we know.
Sure, I knew what was gonna happen. Told Mrs. MadBird early 4th quarter this was gonna end with the Coyotes driving down for two scores, the last one coming with under a minute left, and our hearts would be broken again. And I was right, until Jerrell did what seniors do. Then I was wrong. Thank you sir!! ;)
 

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I never said things would continue as they were. Read more carefully - I said - "After that who knows?"

Neither of us knows what would have happened. I'm not saying Camp would not make a difference but I take issue with those that imply he would because you don't know either. We can both post info that suggests one way or another (I've got more if you want it), but the bottom line is neither of us knows. The Redbirds Won, Cole Mueller is the MVFC Player and Newcomer of the Week. That's what we know.
You're right. You said, "After that who knows?" I'll give you that;. But your tone and following comments strongly implied you expected the D to continue to contain Camp.
 

StLRedbird

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Good insights !

I can add one bit of info on pass play calling this week ... trying to rebuild Jefferson's confidence maybe ?

  • NDSU game .. Jefferson was 4 of 19, 2 picks, 40 yards .. 10 per catch, 2.1 per attempt
  • USD game .. Jefferson was 14 of 19, 0 picks, 84 yards .. 6 per catch, 4.4 per attempt
I didn't see the NDSU game. My sister scheduled a renewal of vows right over the top of Redbird football. SMH. And I couldn't summon the gumption to watch a replay of a 20-0 whitewashing.

There was sequence - 3rd quarter I think - where we got a holding call and started 1st and 20. Mueller for 11 on 1st down. On 2nd down, Jefferson throws a ball to Khepera that should have been a pick 6. Ends up going right thru a USD linebackers hands for a 1 yd gain. Next play - 3rd and 8 - is a Mueller run that goes nowhere. Someday were gonna have to take the training wheels off Jefferson and let him try to get right back up on the horse, so to speak.
 

fourthandshort

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I didn't see the NDSU game. My sister scheduled a renewal of vows right over the top of Redbird football. SMH. And I couldn't summon the gumption to watch a replay of a 20-0 whitewashing.

There was sequence - 3rd quarter I think - where we got a holding call and started 1st and 20. Mueller for 11 on 1st down. On 2nd down, Jefferson throws a ball to Khepera that should have been a pick 6. Ends up going right thru a USD linebackers hands for a 1 yd gain. Next play - 3rd and 8 - is a Mueller run that goes nowhere. Someday were gonna have to take the training wheels off Jefferson and let him try to get right back up on the horse, so to speak.
That was pretty selfish of your sister .. hope she publicly apologized to you during her toast. 😥

Ive watched so little of the games this year .. mostly without audio as well. So Ive not seen enough to post much of my opinions ... just stats and results .. which is only thing I'm decent at anyway.

As for Jefferson .. I haven't 100% given up on him at all, but Spack has a way with QBs .. and no, he's not a QB whisperer type.

And that we don't have OCs with experience who can push back on Spack like we used to .. is NOT a good thing. The AD needs to be involved in next hiring of an OC and set the roles & responsibilities for the position for Spack to follow too. Way easier said than done given Spack' accomplishments .. but it is only way we become a more consistent top 5-10 team.
 
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Virginia Redbird

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I never said things would continue as they were. Read more carefully - I said - "After that who knows?"

Neither of us knows what would have happened. I'm not saying Camp would not make a difference but I take issue with those that imply he would because you don't know either. We can both post info that suggests one way or another (I've got more if you want it), but the bottom line is neither of us knows. The Redbirds Won, Cole Mueller is the MVFC Player and Newcomer of the Week. That's what we know.
Yep, nobody knows what would have happened. The only thing you can say is that whenever your starting QB gets knocked out of the game they are at a disadvantage. The game plan is designed for QB#1, QB#1 gets the most reps in practice and there is a reason why QB#1 is QB#1...usually they are the better player. Does Camp throw the interception? Who knows in truth. Did SD have to scramble to adjust when Camp went down and did the game plan get minimized? Probably almost for certain. In the end it is a W for the Redbirds regardless.

I did not hear that Mueller was named MVFC Player and Newcomer of the week. Congrats to Cole! He has been a bit of a surprise this season but he is playing very well.
 

Total Red

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Someday were gonna have to take the training wheels off Jefferson and let him try to get right back up on the horse, so to speak.
Early in the game we threw some quick slants where the receiver was on the move but that died out. After that most of the passes were to stationary targets either horizontally or a short vertical pass. So I agree, it's a lower risk, lower reward style of passing but it remains to be seen if that is going to change with Jefferson at QB. Some fans will read that and think that I'm knocking Jefferson but I'm not the one calling plays or designing the offense. The coaching staff has decided we need to play it safe.
 
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StLRedbird

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Early in the game we threw some quick slants where the receiver was on the move but that died out. After that most of the passes were to stationary targets either horizontally or a short vertical pass. So I agree, it's a lower risk, lower reward style of passing but it remains to be seen if that is going to change with Jefferson at QB. Some fans will read that and think that I'm knocking Jefferson but I'm not the one calling plays or designing the offense. The coaching staff has decided we need to play it safe.
I don't have any problem at all with Spack's approach to the game. In the brief postgame interview at the end of the USD game, he said - I'm paraphrasing - we're the Redbirds, we have to run the football. When it's working, it's a thing of beauty.
 

MadBird

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And that we don't have OCs with experience who can push back on Spack like we used to .. is NOT a good thing. The AD needs to be involved in next hiring of an OC and set the roles & responsibilities for the position for Spack to follow too. Way easier said than done given Spack' accomplishments .. but it is only way we become a more consistent top 5-10 team.

I don't disagree with this - a little "input" from the AD. Wonder how much the assistant salary pot plays into OC situation? Is Spack limited by how much he can pay an OC? I have no clue, but it might explain why we've got some relatively green guys in key spots.
 
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