Redbirds @ Loyola-Chicago 12/27 3:00 PM FSMW/NBCSCH

[jamminjamarsmiley]

So raise your hand if you thought that Illinois State was going to have an impressive game under these circumstances:
1) Illinois State last played a game on December 15th against Chicago St. that same day Loyola was playing Wisconsin. Loyola had played 2 games after that (Richmond 12/18, St Francis 12/22).
2) Illinois State is playing the #1 team in the MVC being lead by four seniors (all who could be All-MVC)

I expected the game to be a blowout. But I was encouraged by the play of DJ Horne & Dedric Boyd. I think that Mahorcic just had a bad day shooting, but looking forward to him having a better game on Monday. I also think Strong will have a much better showing on Monday. Fleming got his first taste of MVC action and did some good things against a very talented Loyola team, just needs to cut down on the turnovers. I’m still a little unsure about what Sissoko is going to give us. I think we will learn a little more about Reeves and Washington on Monday.

I need a boss like you! How low does the bar go in your world?

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

And here we go with the excuses (again)...

Today I will make it through another day of dealing with Covid. At around 5:00 I will eat dinner, after that I will settle in and prepare to watch my Redbirds basketball team play Loyola. Just like the first time I stepped into Horton Fieldhouse back in 1988 to watch the Redbirds play, I will wait in anticipation for the tipoff. During the game I will hope to see some positive things from the players, something to build on. When the game is over I hope, just as I did yesterday, that I can pick out a few positive things to take into the next game. Tomorrow morning I will wake up (God willing) and wait in anticipation as to who/when the Redbirds will play next. You won’t find me on here posting hate toward the coach, coaching staff, or administration. For those of you that choose to due that, knock yourself out. It’s good to get that stuff out (I guess).

 

[Redbirdwarrior]

For yall that are like "A new coach will fix this!", you are both right and wrong. Dan's recruiting mentality has (I believe incorrectly), been focused around finding the best athletes at a position as opposed to a specific trait (Shooting, rebounding, pure size, defense). To his credit of being an idealist, he believes that players with ALL of those traits exist and exist in high enough numbers to fall through the fingers of the 135 or so bigger name programs in college basketball than Illinois State. And, again to his credit, his teams always tend to have 1 to 2 guys on them that are the "total package". Yarborough, DAP, Teddy Hawkins, McIntosh come to mind.

But I think looking at "best athlete available" might no longer be the route to go. You probably have to start shopping for pieces of a machine rather than pre-built machines. This will be a complete about face to what our rosters have been built like over the last decade and would take a new coaching staff and at least 3 years of truly awful teams to create.

I'm not sure ISU basketball would be able to bounce back from 3 seasons as an RPI 280+ team, but who knows?

 

[Redbirdfan06]

For yall that are like "A new coach will fix this!", you are both right and wrong. Dan's recruiting mentality has (I believe incorrectly), been focused around finding the best athletes at a position as opposed to a specific trait (Shooting, rebounding, pure size, defense). To his credit of being an idealist, he believes that players with ALL of those traits exist and exist in high enough numbers to fall through the fingers of the 135 or so bigger name programs in college basketball than Illinois State. And, again to his credit, his teams always tend to have 1 to 2 guys on them that are the "total package". Yarborough, DAP, Teddy Hawkins, McIntosh come to mind.

But I think looking at "best athlete available" might no longer be the route to go. You probably have to start shopping for pieces of a machine rather than pre-built machines. This will be a complete about face to what our rosters have been built like over the last decade and would take a new coaching staff and at least 3 years of truly awful teams to create.

I'm not sure ISU basketball would be able to bounce back from 3 seasons as an RPI 280+ team, but who knows?

Why would it take a new coaching staff 3 years to build something different due to the rosters assembled the last decade? There has been no continuity in roster or coaching staff with Muller. It’s basically a new roster every year the majority of his tenure as HC.

 

[Redbirdwarrior]

Why would it take a new coaching staff 3 years to build something different due to the rosters assembled the last decade? There has been no continuity in roster or coaching staff with Muller. It’s basically a new roster every year the majority of his tenure as HC.

Its a recruiting theory Dan seems to follow. You'd effectively have to graduate or transfer the "athletes" and replace them with pass first point guards, 3 point specialists, slashers, coke machines, defensive guys. You'd have to shift away from the idea of "super high upside" players and replace it with people who have a minimum floor. Dan seems to have a history or finding guys that COULD be All Americans if everything lined up right or could end up being below average at most facets of the game. It might be time to go back and (I hate using this guy as an example, but his skill base makes sense), a player with a similar skillset as Reggie Lynch where you know even if he sucks at everything else, he'll block or alter 15 shots a game.

Again, SEPARATING THE BAD PERSON HE IS FROM THE BASKETBALL PLAYER HE WAS, his basketball ability had a minimum threshold. He was never not going to be a defensive force and anything else you got from him was a bonus. Of course, we are going back to Jank recruits with that.

I look forward to your hate mail for bringing up Reggie Lynch.

 

[Bdub777]

I have been a Dan supporter but this is just ridiculous. As much as it pains me, it seems clear that Dan is no longer capable of leading this program successfully. Maybe he never was, and his first years were due to a fairly decently stocked cupboard and some good assistants. I guess we will never know, but I don’t think this can be turned around by someone who seems to have no interest in growing or changing.

The roster merry go round is only going to worsen if transfer rules are relaxed. Our decent talent like Horne will leave.

At the risk of playing psychologist, I think Dan’s ego has been a very big part of the problem. A red flag was at the first Hoopsfest. Dana Ford was introduced as “former Redbird great” or something similar, and Dan made a snarky demeaning remark that was a “joke “ that wasn’t. Yeah, Dana was pretty much a role player, but why embarrass him in public? I dismissed it at the time as an immature mistake, but I have never seen evidence that he has matured or grown much at all over time.

His need to feel superior surfaces all the time in troubling ways—especially in how he deals with players. He takes on “projects” he doesn’t have the interpersonal tools to fix. Any humility he expresses is apparently false because the approach never changes.

Lyons would be exercising a profile in courage if he terminated Dan before Brennan took over, but of course he won’t. It is a sad state of affairs.

 

[The Beak]

I think one of Mullers biggest weaknesses is that he still values starting the players who practice well/hard.....like his team is in 4th grade or something.

He just needs to play the best players.

iSUs starters should be

Strong
Horne
Boyd
Mahorcic
Fleming

get the ball into Dusan and spread the floor. Run high ball screens with Fleming. Those are ISUs two plays.

the guards have to rebound. Run when you can.

the other guys can earn their minutes.

There is something to V-Boys first sentence, and it started with Tyler Brown in year one. That sounded like a locker-room "I'm in charge" situation as opposed to not playing hard, but every year or every few weeks it seems to be something.

Been a Dan backer, but it's painfully obvious that Redbird teams the last 3-4 years lack discipline and court and situational awareness, and often seem lost on both ends of the court.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

So raise your hand if you thought that Illinois State was going to have an impressive game under these circumstances:
1) Illinois State last played a game on December 15th against Chicago St. that same day Loyola was playing Wisconsin. Loyola had played 2 games after that (Richmond 12/18, St Francis 12/22).
2) Illinois State is playing the #1 team in the MVC being lead by four seniors (all who could be All-MVC)

I expected the game to be a blowout. But I was encouraged by the play of DJ Horne & Dedric Boyd. I think that Mahorcic just had a bad day shooting, but looking forward to him having a better game on Monday. I also think Strong will have a much better showing on Monday. Fleming got his first taste of MVC action and did some good things against a very talented Loyola team, just needs to cut down on the turnovers. I’m still a little unsure about what Sissoko is going to give us. I think we will learn a little more about Reeves and

There is something to V-Boys first sentence, and it started with Tyler Brown in year one. That sounded like a locker-room "I'm in charge" situation as opposed to not playing hard, but every year or every few weeks it seems to be something.

Been a Dan backer, but it's painfully obvious that Redbird teams the last 3-4 years lack discipline and court and situational awareness, and often seem lost on both ends of the court.

Forgot about that TB incident. Looking back, I think you’re spot on. He wants leaders in the locker room, but only if it’s him.

 

[Redbirdwarrior]

Yeah, I get sitting if you are skipping practice or if you no show a team meeting or something, but these guys don't have "try hard" scholarships- they have basketball scholarships. Assuming the best player is the one that busts ass the most in practice that week is foolish. Honestly might be the opposite. There is such a thing a natural talent and those who have a bunch of it probably don't need to run at 150% in practice to keep up.

Excellent post about Tyler Brown. That guy was all planet but was on our bench because he knew he didn't have to kill it in the gym to kill it on the floor. Dan disagreed.

 

[ISU86]

Yeah, I get sitting if you are skipping practice or if you no show a team meeting or something, but these guys don't have "try hard" scholarships- they have basketball scholarships. Assuming the best player is the one that busts ass the most in practice that week is foolish. Honestly might be the opposite. There is such a thing a natural talent and those who have a bunch of it probably don't need to run at 150% in practice to keep up.

This can cut both ways. It is hard for the entirety of the team to prepare for what is/not possible under game situations if/when not all personnel run through it at "game speed" prior. Maybe the top players do not need/want it, but the rest of the roster may benefit from it.

When a pass from player A is ahead/behind player B during a game (and we see that a lot), is it because player A was passing faster, and/or player B was cutting faster, etc. than in practice?

Rightly or wrongly, Dan apparently believes that consistent practices will deliver consistent game results (which may/not be the best game result on any given night, but over time would).

 

[gobirds85]

To be fair, channeling my inner Letterkenny, we have had talented players at ISU over the past nine years and I believe some of the current players can be solid D1 players, but they don't seem to be "coached up" and it has been reflected in our on court results. In a perfect world, the new AD gets to make a change, but as all know...

 

[Bird Friend]

The 'try hard' at all times mentality goes back to Stallings who said--quite clearly--practice should be so hard the games seem easier. The kicker on that is if that's what you want, you should be recruiting those guys. Frankly, I think those are the guys Jacobsen, Moser, and Wardle recruit and it seems Mullens is recruiting. It's the kind of player Weber and Herrin recruited at SIU, and Stallings and Donewald recruited here.

Some guys you can convince to accept and adopt that attitude. Some guys you can't. Better to not have to convince, so better to know they have that attitude coming in. Hard thing is, some guys are really good at saying all that right things during recruiting and I doubt many AAU coaches are ever gonna say "their guy" doesn't always put in the effort. I imagine it will be even harder to ensure players have the right attitude with not being able to go see guys play and practice. I'm not sure Dan has learned that he can't convince many of those he's recruited.

 

[HailISNU]

In both cases, what was Spurrier walking into? If Dan were to walk, and we know that is not going to happen, what options does he have that pay around $600k?

I agree with the statement “Muller won’t quit.” I disagree with the statement “No one making $600k is going to just quit.”

 

[Birdfriend72]

So raise your hand if you thought that Illinois State was going to have an impressive game under these circumstances:
1) Illinois State last played a game on December 15th against Chicago St. that same day Loyola was playing Wisconsin. Loyola had played 2 games after that (Richmond 12/18, St Francis 12/22).
2) Illinois State is playing the #1 team in the MVC being lead by four seniors (all who could be All-MVC)

I expected the game to be a blowout. But I was encouraged by the play of DJ Horne & Dedric Boyd. I think that Mahorcic just had a bad day shooting, but looking forward to him having a better game on Monday. I also think Strong will have a much better showing on Monday. Fleming got his first taste of MVC action and did some good things against a very talented Loyola team, just needs to cut down on the turnovers. I’m still a little unsure about what Sissoko is going to give us. I think we will learn a little more about Reeves and Washington on Monday.

Nice try, Dan! Thi

I think one of Mullers biggest weaknesses is that he still values starting the players who practice well/hard.....like his team is in 4th grade or something.

He just needs to play the best players.

iSUs starters should be

Strong
Horne
Boyd
Mahorcic
Fleming

get the ball into Dusan and spread the floor. Run high ball screens with Fleming. Those are ISUs two plays.

the guards have to rebound. Run when you can.

the other guys can earn their minutes.

Our guards pass the ball and stand there. Why don’t they cut? I rarely see our guards cut...after a pass. Our boxing out is not good all. It’s hard to rebound when your execution isn’t good.

 

[Birdfriend72]

Christ Almighty that was a tough watch. I caught the game replay at 10 last night and... oof. Our guards are all potentially all MVC level players, Horne and Boyd are big time players. But with Fisher opting out and Rey transferring, this might be the weakest collection of post players I've seen at ISU since that year all of our bigs got hurt and we were playing 4 guards and a small forward in the paint for like 5 games. I'd be surprised if they didn't just feed Krutwig every single time down the floor tonight. We couldnt stop him if our guys had cattleprods.

The funny part of it is Krutwig isn’t that good. He would get eaten alive if he were in the Big 12. He is some what big, but slow.

 

[Manchester Matt]

The bad ball screen, drive and throw up a contested shot and one pass to the wing, drive and throw up a contested shot offense is on point tonight.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

The funny part of it is Krutwig isn’t that good. He would get eaten alive if he were in the Big 12. He is some what big, but slow.

Per Ken Pomeroy, Krutwig grades out as 6th best player in college basketball.

 

[stats]

But I think looking at "best athlete available" might no longer be the route to go. You probably have to start shopping for pieces of a machine rather than pre-built machines.

In my opinion, the players need to know what

The funny part of it is Krutwig isn’t that good. He would get eaten alive if he were in the Big 12. He is some what big, but slow.

Krutwig is slow, but plays the game right. As a freshman, he was part of the reason they made it to the final four. He averaged double figures in his 5 ncaa games going 22 for 38 from the field. They had wins over Miami(acc), Tennessee(sec), Nevada(mountain), and Kansas State(big 12). In the final four as a freshman against Michigan(big 10), he was Loyola's leading scorer going 7 for 11 scoring 17 points.

Sometimes athleticism is overrated and smart is underrated in the success of basketball. Also, sometimes power conference players are overrated while mid-major conference players are underrated.

 

[gobirds85]

I agree with the statement “Muller won’t quit.” I disagree with the statement “No one making $600k is going to just quit.”

Allow me to restate the obvious...Dan is not going to quit making $600K.

 

[Bird Friend]

Well . . . now that that's over . . . the good news: