Practice in sub zero cold

[Redbirdwarrior]

So we all know that conversation about an indoor facility is ongoing, most recently settling on a bubble- which i think is great. But recent pictures and reports are that our boys are practicing outdoors in this recent polar vortex. What... what on earth? Someone please tell me we are at least attempting to run running plays or short passes plus most of our teams individual exercises in Horton Field house, the Rec or RBA. Are we running all of practice outside?

 

[ISUBU]

They're going outside for brief periods of time, doing some work inside.

Can't even run real strong routes inside Horton due to the floor surface - it is not made to handle the stresses due to change of direction. So I'm not sure that you could do much at full speed.

I wish they'd contracted some time at either of the two domes in the Peoria area. Would seem to be worth it for a practice or two at least.

 

[Total Red]

Illinois State football grinding through bitterly cold conditions

The Illinois State football team is doing its best to prepare for the Feb. 20 season opener at Missouri State.

www.pantagraph.com

 

[TheTruth]

This is Larry Lyon's legacy.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

Nobody expected to be preparing for an upcoming season in zero degrees. Still, the Athletic Department owns what can only be called a fiasco of planning. A brick and mortar IPF would have been great to have, a recruiting tool, and benefit more than Football. But the expense is very high. The frustration is that if they were going with the bubble they could have done that long ago. There is a High School here in Virginia Beach that has a bubble and it is very functional. I know because my son's soccer club contracted for practice time in the dead of winter. Spacious, warm, and the boys could practice and focus when it is in the 20s here (sorry Illinois...they will not let the kids go outside for recess down here if the mercury is at 40 degrees or below! Wimps!). They should have had a bubble a long time ago. I can't believe that a HIgh School can afford a bubble but Illinois State University can not. Throw out the competitive nature of FBS, mid-week games, fan attendance, and all those other factors being discussed on another thread. The Athletic Department is just simply not competent enough for FBS. Not sure they are competent enough for FCS. Maybe the new guy will bring in a fresh outlook. I think ISU athletics really needs that.

 

[ricohill]

Football Q and A with new Illinois State athletic director Kyle Brennan

Illinois State athletic director Kyle Brennan has been on the job one month since replacing the retired Larry Lyons.

www.pantagraph.com

Larry and his staff only raised $2.3 Million in his time here. That’s why there is no facility. How can that be all they raised in 7 or 8 years?

 

[ISUBU]

About the only good thing about pregame preparations this week is that Missouri state doesn't have an indoor facility. It's pretty cold there too.

 

[fourthandshort]

This is Larry Lyon's legacy.

Don't normally agree with TheTruth's hard hitting pessimism/criticisms, but as I've learned over my years on this forum from others, this was certainly his biggest weakness. I heard stories about somethings he did to alienate the 2nd level donor class, and how little he did to cultivate more 1st level donors. I get the challenges of being an FCS football program and having so few professional undergrad programs ... but we can and should have done better. Sense I got is he was uncomfortable asking and pressing for money .. which means he didn't know quite how to do it. That he couldn't capitalize more on our football success under Spack this last decade ... not good.

Let's go AD Brennan !!!

The one good sign I take from the 2.3m, which is first time I heard this figure ... but at least we didn't take the easy way out and settle for the bubble initially. I'm fine, or I "was" fine, settling for the bubble now. Economics and time have gotten me over that hump ... the bubble gives us 90% of what we truly need it for .... offseason/inclement weather practice field option, which ultimately means RECRUITMENT OF KIDS FROM FLORIDA AND TEXAS.

If AD Brennan needs and extra year or 2 to secure enough funds and a co-sponsor partner, then I'll wait. But FCS football economics likely just got a little worse from the pandemic.

P.S. to AD Brennan ... Spack is great at building and developing his roster at every position group except Quarterback. He knows defense and importance of a run game, and keeps finding good to great RBs, which is why we are almost always top 20 or top 10. But his best HS QB recruit has been Jake Kolbe. And Spack has yet to start his own HS QB recruit as a senior ... meaning everyone of his HS QBs has either never panned out, or started and lost their job .. and not because we always have good ones waiting in wings ... we do not.

Spack started in 2009, and inherited Matt Brown who finished in 2012. Since 2013, the only "good" year from a Spack HS QB recruit was 2016 with RS SO Jake Kolbe. Aside from that, we've only had 1 1/2 good QB years since Matt Brown left after 2012 ... transfer Tre Roberson in 2014 and 2015 .. technically, Roberson was playing with bad hand in 2015, and he did not have a good year, other than read option and leasing the team. We've had several FBS QB transfers, only Roberson has worked out. I know Spack won't want you meddling .. but he needs help here. We would be a final 4 contender most years, if we figured out the QB position.

I'm a huge Spack fan ... but QB is our achilles heal playing in the MVFC .. the top conference bar none. Look how well James Robinson did on 1-15 Jaguars ... makes me wonder if our offense had even more holes than we thought.

 

[Redbirdwarrior]

Don't normally agree with TheTruth's hard hitting pessimism/criticisms, but as I've learned over my years on this forum from others, this was certainly his biggest weakness. I heard stories about somethings he did to alienate the 2nd level donor class, and how little he did to cultivate more 1st level donors. I get the challenges of being an FCS football program and having so few professional undergrad programs ... but we can and should have done better. Sense I got is he was uncomfortable asking and pressing for money .. which means he didn't know quite how to do it. That he couldn't capitalize more on our football success under Spack this last decade ... not good.

Let's go AD Brennan !!!

The one good sign I take from the 2.3m, which is first time I heard this figure ... but at least we didn't take the easy way out and settle for the bubble initially. I'm fine, or I "was" fine, settling for the bubble now. Economics and time have gotten me over that hump ... the bubble gives us 90% of what we truly need it for .... offseason/inclement weather practice field option, which ultimately means RECRUITMENT OF KIDS FROM FLORIDA AND TEXAS.

If AD Brennan needs and extra year or 2 to secure enough funds and a co-sponsor partner, then I'll wait. But FCS football economics likely just got a little worse from the pandemic.

P.S. to AD Brennan ... Spack is great at building and developing his roster at every position group except Quarterback. He knows defense and importance of a run game, and keeps finding good to great RBs, which is why we are almost always top 20 or top 10. But his best HS QB recruit has been Jake Kolbe. And Spack has yet to start his own HS QB recruit as a senior ... meaning everyone of his HS QBs has either never panned out, or started and lost their job .. and not because we always have good ones waiting in wings ... we do not.

Spack started in 2009, and inherited Matt Brown who finished in 2012. Since 2013, the only "good" year from a Spack HS QB recruit was 2016 with RS SO Jake Kolbe. Aside from that, we've only had 1 1/2 good QB years since Matt Brown left after 2012 ... transfer Tre Roberson in 2014 and 2015 .. technically, Roberson was playing with bad hand in 2015, and he did not have a good year, other than read option and leasing the team. We've had several FBS QB transfers, only Roberson has worked out. I know Spack won't want you meddling .. but he needs help here. We would be a final 4 contender most years, if we figured out the QB position.

I'm a huge Spack fan ... but QB is our achilles heal playing in the MVFC .. the top conference bar none. Look how well James Robinson did on 1-15 Jaguars ... makes me wonder if our offense had even more holes than we thought.

In depth. I dig it.

I feel that Spack, being, at his core, a defensive minded coach, has fallen into the trap that we have been talking about for far too long here: Find someone to build an offense and he will recruit the players. But then 2 or 3 coordinators leave and you have to start over on your offensive theory. Are we read-option? Are we a pro-style offense? Are we running 5 wide hurry up? If you take away the 2 years with Tre under center, you have to look back to Matt Brown to find an offensive identity.

We really need that. We really need to decide what kind of offense we are going to be and need to buy into that for 4+ years.

 

[TIMMY]

I got frostbite coaching a first-round playoff game in I believe 1994. Maybe 93. While that doesn't happen every year in high school the playing field is pretty level. It's pretty level this week. The temperature in Springfield Mo is -2 right now. It's the weeks like this where our opponents are inside and we're outside that is the concern. Has been since the Dakotas came in.

 

[Redbirdwarrior]

SECOND question: We are getting 4-11 inches of snow today. How are we handling this for practice purposes?

 

[StLRedbird]

In depth. I dig it.

I feel that Spack, being, at his core, a defensive minded coach, has fallen into the trap that we have been talking about for far too long here: Find someone to build an offense and he will recruit the players. But then 2 or 3 coordinators leave and you have to start over on your offensive theory. Are we read-option? Are we a pro-style offense? Are we running 5 wide hurry up? If you take away the 2 years with Tre under center, you have to look back to Matt Brown to find an offensive identity.

We really need that. We really need to decide what kind of offense we are going to be and need to buy into that for 4+ years.

Disagree completely, but that's part of what fan forums are for. Why would you restrict yourself to only recruiting to some "offensive identity", whatever that is? It sounds like a luxury that even the Michigans and Alabamas can't afford and don't fence themselves into. You recruit the best players you can and tailor your offense - or your defense - to suit them.

 

[Redbirdwarrior]

Disagree completely, but that's part of what fan forums are for. Why would you restrict yourself to only recruiting to some "offensive identity", whatever that is? It sounds like a luxury that even the Michigans and Alabamas can't afford and don't fence themselves into. You recruit the best players you can and tailor your offense - or your defense - to suit them.

The Michigans and Alabamas have players paying their own tuition to be on the practice squad that would often start and be all conference at this level. They have the absolute best players that...ahem...money can buy. They can do everything, so they don't have to really have an offensive identity because they can just start with being good to great at every position and then make slight adjustments within.

A good example of where our lack of an offensive identity hurt excellent players was Jake Kolbe. As has been mentioned, Kolbe was among our highest level recruit in a decade and was ultra hyped. He could throw it into a teacup from 30 yards and could make plays with his legs. But for 2+ years of him starting it was just kinda this weird mashup of offensive setups and playcalls that often left a guy that, on paper, should have been all conference and made him an average (I argue below average) FCS quarterback.

 

[MadBird]

The Michigans and Alabamas have players paying their own tuition to be on the practice squad that would often start and be all conference at this level. They have the absolute best players that...ahem...money can buy. They can do everything, so they don't have to really have an offensive identity because they can just start with being good to great at every position and then make slight adjustments within.

A good example of where our lack of an offensive identity hurt excellent players was Jake Kolbe. As has been mentioned, Kolbe was among our highest level recruit in a decade and was ultra hyped. He could throw it into a teacup from 30 yards and could make plays with his legs. But for 2+ years of him starting it was just kinda this weird mashup of offensive setups and playcalls that often left a guy that, on paper, should have been all conference and made him an average (I argue below average) FCS quarterback.

I tend to agree with Redbirdwarrior on this one - seems like you'd want to have a general idea of what you're looking for when you go out recruiting (ie. linemen who are better pass blockers or run blockers, DB's who excel in a press vs. zone, etc.). Tweak the "system" to fit your guys, but seems like most teams have some basic outline of what their offense or defense is set up to be. And also that for all the good stuff, Spack's record with QB's isn't the best.

As for Kolbe specifically - check the record books, he's in the Top 5 of several career passing categories. Had a very distinguished career here, and would be even higher if allowed to finish up his career as the starter. No knock on Davis, but he doesn't appear in very many of the categories.

In another thread long ago, I posted the names of all the QB's I could find on the rosters since Spack became HC. I won't post it here (on the thread about practicing in cold weather), but very few even made it 4 years, much less excelled here. Some ended up at other positions for us. And I tried to follow-up in the ones that left and it's not like any of them transferred out and made a name for themselves elsewhere - mostly DII or DIII QB's, none stars, and some ended up in other positions. I agree with fourthandshort - Spack's performance eval with the new AD should include some counseling on improvement behind the center.

 

[TIMMY]

The more continuity a team has in their scheme - the less they think. The less they think - the faster they play.
Same playbook for 35 years. Tweaked it over time as the game changed but the core principles and terminology never changed.

 

[Redbirdwarrior]

I think about schools that have created a style and stuck to it. Hell, some have even become famous for it. I think of Georgia Tech and West Viginia running the option offense. And because of servicemen size limitations, Army and Navy. I think about Air Force's unique offense or even Texas Tech's insane focus on spreading the field. Those teams all recruit to that.

In the same vein, I think about schools like Iowa who recruit these gigantic offensive linemen because they want power football.

I am NOT saying I want us to go out and be Army running the T formation and recruiting 0 wide receivers, but I am saying it would be nice to know what our identity is on the offensive side of the ball and not have to spend the first 3 or 4 games of a 9 game season figuring out who we are going to be this year.

 

[ISUBU]

NDSU has as much a system as anybody. Likely sending their 3rd straight QB to the NFL. As good as they should be at finding/developing players to fit their system, they have brought in two transfers at QB.

 

[TIMMY]

I think about schools that have created a style and stuck to it. Hell, some have even become famous for it. I think of Georgia Tech and West Viginia running the option offense. And because of servicemen size limitations, Army and Navy. I think about Air Force's unique offense or even Texas Tech's insane focus on spreading the field. Those teams all recruit to that.

In the same vein, I think about schools like Iowa who recruit these gigantic offensive linemen because they want power football.

I am NOT saying I want us to go out and be Army running the T formation and recruiting 0 wide receivers, but I am saying it would be nice to know what our identity is on the offensive side of the ball and not have to spend the first 3 or 4 games of a 9 game season figuring out who we are going to be this year.

GT, Army, Navy, etc. running the triple option / flexbone is not only effective for their smaller linemen it's damn hard to prepare for in a week. Young coaches are bumfuzzled by it because they have rarely seen it and defensive players need to be very disciplined to stop it. If you can be halfway decent throwing it's really tough to stop.
I love watching the NDSU offense. They only threw it 18 times a game last year but they were good at it and it kept defenses honest.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

P.S. to AD Brennan ... Spack is great at building and developing his roster at every position group except Quarterback. He knows defense and importance of a run game, and keeps finding good to great RBs, which is why we are almost always top 20 or top 10. But his best HS QB recruit has been Jake Kolbe. And Spack has yet to start his own HS QB recruit as a senior ... meaning everyone of his HS QBs has either never panned out, or started and lost their job .. and not because we always have good ones waiting in wings ... we do not.

Spack started in 2009, and inherited Matt Brown who finished in 2012. Since 2013, the only "good" year from a Spack HS QB recruit was 2016 with RS SO Jake Kolbe. Aside from that, we've only had 1 1/2 good QB years since Matt Brown left after 2012 ... transfer Tre Roberson in 2014 and 2015 .. technically, Roberson was playing with bad hand in 2015, and he did not have a good year, other than read option and leasing the team. We've had several FBS QB transfers, only Roberson has worked out. I know Spack won't want you meddling .. but he needs help here. We would be a final 4 contender most years, if we figured out the QB position.

I'm a huge Spack fan ... but QB is our achilles heal playing in the MVFC .. the top conference bar none. Look how well James Robinson did on 1-15 Jaguars ... makes me wonder if our offense had even more holes than we thought.

We are leaking into a QB thread but if you look at the history of Coach Spack it is just the truth. QB and offense have not been particularly consistent or good. He recruits QBs as athletes apparently all the while intending to move them to another position...often defense. He is beginning to remind me of Lovie Smith. A defensive guy that turns out solid defense but always looking for someone who will fix his offense. He seemed to have zero interest in that side of the ball (Okay, Illinois defense was not that good). Coach Spack has one offensive identity, big offensive lines, and a running back that runs the ball. That is about it. Tight ends are only there to block. Maybe venture out for a pass once every three or four games. I think the offense changed with Trey simply because Trey would improvise on his own. How many times did he drop back and then take off for a big gain? He himself kept the defense off balance. Look at the Co-Offensive coordinators he chose. One is based in the O-Line and the other mainly running backs. I just read their bios. Does anyone see anything different? Muhammed-Lankford coached Wide Receivers just last year, his first at ISU. Before that mainly running backs. Irvin was mostly O-Line where he played. He was Tight End coach last year but read his bio, "The Redbird tight ends were a big part of the success of the ISU running attack led by All-American James Robinson. Starters Robert Gillum and Tanner Taula combined for 12 receptions on the season and were integral in blocking schemes for the Redbirds." His tight ends COMBINED for "12" receptions and their real claim to fame was blocking for JR. This is Spack's Co-Coordinators, a running back (linebacker) and offensive lineman. Does this look like the very essence of Spack's interest in the offense? Just run the ball. Somehow I don't see the Birds airing it out much this year. Maybe I will be wrong...we will find out some in less than a week.

 

[StLRedbird]

The Michigans and Alabamas have players paying their own tuition to be on the practice squad that would often start and be all conference at this level. They have the absolute best players that...ahem...money can buy. They can do everything, so they don't have to really have an offensive identity because they can just start with being good to great at every position and then make slight adjustments within.

A good example of where our lack of an offensive identity hurt excellent players was Jake Kolbe. As has been mentioned, Kolbe was among our highest level recruit in a decade and was ultra hyped. He could throw it into a teacup from 30 yards and could make plays with his legs. But for 2+ years of him starting it was just kinda this weird mashup of offensive setups and playcalls that often left a guy that, on paper, should have been all conference and made him an average (I argue below average) FCS quarterback.

I won't argue that our offensive schemes have been pretty bad at times. But you're kinda making my point for me. Get the best talent you can, and adjust your system to them. Agreed we didn't do that with Kolbe.