Power 2 Conferences

Total Red

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The SEC caught the Big 10 and their rookie commissioner off guard as they nabbed two new members - Oklahoma and Texas. Both schools are waist deep in football tradition although the Sooners have had the stronger program in recent years. Texas brings untapped potential and a lot of TV/media viewers in a state with a growing population. The SEC was already the premier football conference in the country and this will serve to widen the gap. The surprise move is a "humiliating kick in the crotch" for the Big 10, as Sting would say.

I'm going to lay out two possible responses by the Big 10. Scenario 1 - The SEC stops after adding Oklahoma and Texas. I think the Big 10 needs to make some sort of reply if only for appearances. If you're going to fall behind, at least go down fighting. The problem is that there aren't many football schools that meet the Big 10 geographic and academic profile. Notre Dame would be great but they have given the Big 10 a cold slap rejection in the past. I doubt anything has changed. I would recommend that the Big 10 move to Plan B for basketball, which would be a power grab for the best basketball schools available. Kansas and North Carolina would be my top two choices. I think Kansas would jump at the chance. North Carolina would be a tougher get. They may have traditionalists that want to stay in the ACC or they may be more interested in joining the MEGA-SEC. If North Carolina isn't interested then maybe Duke, Virginia or West Virginia.

I can anticipate the counter arguments. "Total Red, you message board moron, don't you know that conference realignment is 100% about football and that basketball has nothing to do with it. Kansas and maybe Duke? SMH!" My reply would be that 100% is an exaggeration. Football is maybe 90% of the consideration
but you have understand that that bird has flown. Oklahoma and Texas would have been prized additions for the Big 10 but if you snooze you lose. What now? If you can get Kansas and North Carolina and develop the best basketball conference in the country then at least you have a consolation prize. It beats doing nothing.

I'll also maintain that Kansas is not the lost cause in football that it is being made out to be. Yes Kansas is down and out they've been that way for quite a while. But Iowa St. was a bottom dweller for a long time too. Iowa St. was 9-3 in 2020 with a bowl win over Oregon. Likewise Northwestern was once a perennial doormat in the Big 10. Northwestern was 7-2 in 2020 with a bowl victory over Auburn. If Iowa St. and Northwestern can find the strength to rise up, then you can't tell me that Kansas won't someday find a good coach and win some bowl games. A change to a new conference might be just what they need to hit the reset button.

So that's Scenario 1. Scenario 2 might be described as the SEC hitting the nuclear button. Perhaps that's too dramatic. Let's describe it as the SEC following up the kick to the crotch with a fierce backhanded smack to the face. Let's say the SEC keeps going after Oklahoma and Texas and takes Clemson and Florida St. off the buffet table. It's practically an attempt corner the market on the college football championship. Do they stop there? Do they then add North Carolina and Miami while opening talks with USC and UCLA? Remember, if they didn't listen to me then North Carolina is still there for the taking. This colossal power grab would require a bold and equally powerful response from the Big 10. At that point I don't any see choice but to form an alliance with the Pac-12. I say alliance because it would be for football only. I can't see fully merging the two conferences. Is the women's VB team at Rutgers really going to fly out to Tempe, AZ for a match? Bad idea. The Big10 and the Pac-12 would form a football conference juggernaut that could provide opposition to the MEGA SEC. The SEC would be home to the traditional southern superpowers like Alabama, Clemson, LSU, Georgia, while solidifying the rich recruiting grounds of Texas and Florida. The Big 10-Pac-12 would counter by going coast to coast with massive media/population exposure while maintaining the rich southern California recruiting market. The Power 5 is dead. Long Live the Power 2.
 

Total Red

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Many of you have already requested a cinematic representation of what a humiliating kick to the crotch followed by a fierce backhanded smack to the face would look like. I must oblige.

 

GhostofMBA

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I think the Big 10 needs to make some sort of reply if only for appearances. I think Kansas would jump at the chance. North Carolina would be a tougher get. They may have traditionalists that want to stay in the ACC or they may be more interested in joining the MEGA-SEC. If North Carolina isn't interested then maybe Duke, Virginia or West Virginia.

I don't any see choice but to form an alliance with the Pac-12. I say alliance because it would be for football only. I can't see fully merging the two conferences. Is the women's VB team at Rutgers really going to fly out to Tempe, AZ for a match? Bad idea. The Big10 and the Pac-12 would form a football conference juggernaut that could provide opposition to the MEGA SEC. The SEC would be home to the traditional southern superpowers like Alabama, Clemson, LSU, Georgia, while solidifying the rich recruiting grounds of Texas and Florida. The Big 10-Pac-12 would counter by going coast to coast with massive media/population exposure while maintaining the rich southern California recruiting market. The Power 5 is dead. Long Live the Power 2.
Currently, the B10 only looks at AAU research consortium schools. That group there is only 64 and that is Billions of $$$ every year go that group to be split amongst the members. Football money is nothing comparatively.

But, it appears an alliance has formed from the PAC, B10, and ACC. If that voting block bands together on NCAA items, then the SEC may go to 20+ teams and break off of FBS completely and have their own championship. 2-4 teams from the PAC could join the SEC or B10 if the B10 decides to expand (example, USC is an AAU school but also the leader of the PAC). SEC may completely break off anyway.

The ACC has the grant of rights until 2035 or something. Thus it may be a bit of a while for ACC members to be wooed out of the ACC. The PAC12 could be the next SEC expansion target as their media deals are not as lucrative.

WVU has already been rejected everywhere and could be on the outside looking in. They are competitive and have a rabid base.

Nothing in the state of Iowa that is needed by the B10, looking at Iowa State, and is a shared geographic area.

Same problem for Kansas, sharing the space with KState in the state of Kansas but also the KC Metro area market with Mizzou.

The B10 could give both ISU and KU a lifeboat as both are AAU schools, but does not need to.

Streaming services, not tack-ons to cable subs, could be the future, and potentially more valuable that today.

The B12 with its current members should look to expand and wait for things to become more clear, IE, the PAC having members poached or the ACC having members poached, ect. and see what happens.
 

GhostofMBA

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Oh, and with the recent NIL court cases, I say I do agree with these schools breaking off. No way the NCAA has no teeth anymore and more than likely cannot manage rules around these NILs. Maybe new "scholarship contracts" will be created by schools (FBS/FCS, DII, DIII) where you waive your NIL rights. But I cannot see the big schools doing that. The divide of talent is only going to get bigger. Let those schools move on, most of those games are not really that competitive anyway.
 

Total Red

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WVU has already been rejected everywhere and could be on the outside looking in.
Nebraska has not been in the AAU research consortium for over a decade now and Notre Dame was pursued by the Big 10 despite not being in the AAU. Non AAU members in a conference do not prevent AAU members from receiving funding. Notre Dame was a football motivated maneuver but to no avail. I think West Virginia would still stand a chance but Pitt might be a better choice along with Kansas.
 

GhostofMBA

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Nebraska has not been in the AAU research consortium for over a decade now and Notre Dame was pursued by the Big 10 despite not being in the AAU. Non AAU members in a conference do not prevent AAU members from receiving funding. Notre Dame was a football motivated maneuver but to no avail. I think West Virginia would still stand a chance but Pitt might be a better choice along with Kansas.

UNL was AAU when B10 voted to let them in and 9 months following. Also read that after the AAU kicked out Nebraska, some members of the B10 wanted them voted out of the conference as well. It will remain to be seen if the B10 keeps its club exclusive to AAU. With the "alliance", I would say the B10 is not really looking to expand at this moment.

The newest member of the Big Ten, the University of Nebraska – Lincoln, was voted out of the Association of American Universities — becoming the only member of the Big Ten to not be part of the association.
The AAU — an association comprised of the nation’s top research universities — has never before voted to remove a member, though other universities have left voluntarily on the expectation they would soon be voted out due to failure to meet the organization’s criteria. The vote comes nine months after the university’s induction into the Big Ten.
 

GhostofMBA

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I think West Virginia would still stand a chance but Pitt might be a better choice along with Kansas.

I am just not seeing WVU with a seat. I can see the ACC breaking up, some moving to the B10, others moving to the SEC while the rest join like the B12 or AAC (or a new conference forms with a combo of the best of the rest). Really the wildcard here is the PAC and its members. Will there be an alliance between the B10 and the PAC and stay in the NCAA while the SEC breaks off? Do you go with the 2 mega conferences and those break off? Does like Arizona, Arizona St, UCLA, Utah, Oregon, and USC break and go into the SEC to help build that mega conference into its own entity like the NFL model? But as we see with the "alliance", it is the B10+ACC+PAC against the SEC. I cannot see the SEC being under that thumb for long. The thought experiments are exciting to me.
 

GhostofMBA

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While UND has rejected both the B10 and ACC, I am curious how many times can you take rejection, or waiting, before just moving on and letting that idea/proposal rot on the vine. Right now, UND has that "special" FBS/NCAA treatment. But when the conferences break off, no reason to include UND as "special" member at that point. Thus their luster will diminish overtime if they remain independent within the NCAA.
 

gobirds85

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Just my 2 cents and that maybe more than it's worth...the power 5 football conferences form an alliance after another round of expansion gobbling up large football crazed universities. This group leaves the ncaa so they can direct their own telly contracts and rules. This leaves the ncaa with the remaining conferences, MAC, AAC, Sun Belt, Mountain West, etc. and along with some FCS schools form the new ncaa D1. I could see these universities even cutting scholarships to reduce overhead.

What it will all come down to is the almighty $$$$.
 

Virginia Redbird

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News of Old Dominion University leaving Conference USA and joining the Sun Belt Conference is big here in SE Virginia right now. The FCS connection is that James Madison University is being reported as almost certain to jump to the FBS and Sun Belt as well. I don't know if that is accurate or not but it is being reported in this area as a done deal. I knew ODU wanted to cut down on travel and have more regional games. JMU moving up I had not heard before.


The plus side for me here locally is there should be some interesting games coming to Norfolk in the near future. JMU v ODU would be a regional rivalry a lot of fans will get into. I would buy tickets for that game myself. Change continues at a rapid pace.
 

cubird

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How does WKU $22,000,000 athletic budget compare to MAC teams? They were near the bottom in $ in the USA.
 

jwa123

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I think the number you cite is how much of their budget is provided by student fees. The overall budget in 2019 is listed at $31,531,023.
 

Redbird222

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Conference USA announced the addition of four new members on Friday, adding Liberty, New Mexico State, Jacksonville State and Sam Houston. This is effective 7/1/2023. James Madison also officially committed to Sun Belt. Middle Tennessee and Wesyern Kentucky are expected to go to MAC. If that happen Conference USA will be at 7 so expect at least one more team to be recruited to USA

Jacksonville St moved to Atlantic Sun so wondering if they they will target another Ohio Valley Team.

 

topiarydan

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Time to go back to D1 or D2 - fcs is a joke. NDState and SDState should go to Mountain West
 

Virginia Redbird

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FCS is certainly going to change quite a bit. I wonder if this will force NDSU's hand? They have to make a decision if they just want to keep winning FCS titles year after year, after year, after year, or compete on a higher level.
 
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