Good year with attendence

[Chi-bird]

The athletic department should be trying to uncrack the code of how to increase attendance in November games and would-be playoff games. I understand the weather is not the best, and other schools see drops by then, but that is our biggest opportunity area right there.

 

[Jon99]

I've never understood why anyone outside of current students (OK and their parents) give a rip about student fees. We all had the choice of paying them or not. There are a lot of schools out there. It's kind of like caring about the Cubs payroll. Why would I? I think the Ricketts family will get by.
JMU apparently has no problem attracting students willing to pay to attend. And they've got some kick ass facilities to show for it. Good for them.

I think it's a slippery slope to assume students should pay to do big things for the football program. That should come from people with means who want to and can afford to support thru big donations .. alumni, community, big businesses, etc. This is where AD Lyons has fallen short .. Ive heard stories about things he's done to turn off the donor base .. promises not kept stuff. In the end, you have to want to and know how to ASK FOR MONEY, and know the value of keeping your promises.

Well they must be doing something right, the athletic budget has gone from $17M to $27M from 2010-2017, and I know you hate the comparison, but NIU went from $24M to $25M in the same time span.. my guess for thus year it will be north of $30M which puts us bear the top of the FCS schools, JMU and Delaware the only schools that are far ahead of us.

If our plan is to go to FBS as some point, our budget is in the ballpark were it should be, which is ahead of some MAC and Sun Belt teams..

 

[fourthandshort]

I've never understood why anyone outside of current students (OK and their parents) give a rip about student fees. We all had the choice of paying them or not. There are a lot of schools out there. It's kind of like caring about the Cubs payroll. Why would I? I think the Ricketts family will get by.
JMU apparently has no problem attracting students willing to pay to attend. And they've got some kick ass facilities to show for it. Good for them.

I think it's a slippery slope to assume students should pay to do big things for the football program. That should come from people with means who want to and can afford to support thru big donations .. alumni, community, big businesses, etc. This is where AD Lyons has fallen short .. Ive heard stories about things he's done to turn off the donor base .. promises not kept stuff. In the end, you have to want to and know how to ASK FOR MONEY, and know the value of keeping your promises.

Well they must be doing something right, the athletic budget has gone from $17M to $27M from 2010-2017, and I know you hate the comparison, but NIU went from $24M to $25M in the same time span.. my guess for thus year it will be north of $30M which puts us bear the top of the FCS schools, JMU and Delaware the only schools that are far ahead of us.

If our plan is to go to FBS as some point, our budget is in the ballpark were it should be, which is ahead of some MAC and Sun Belt teams..

But I think we spread it thinner across all sports teams than most, certainly way moreso than NIU ... with football only getting what it needs to keep us barely competitive in the MVFC .. emphasis on barely. Case in point, we couldn't afford to buy our way out of the STX game last year and no one was more relieved to see us go 6-5 (incl STX win) than AD Lyons all but eliminating our chance of playoff bid in a year three 6-4 teams got bids.

As for NIU, as you well know, they put all their eggs in football basket .. so they aren't even a good comparison. But put aside NIU, I'm guessing we are still above the average in our % splits of football/basketball vs all other sports budgeting. Which I don't necessarily object to being slightly above average. I just wish Lyons was stronger in fund raising for the 2 biggest sports ... business is business, and like any program, you do have to keep up with the Jones's or ir will eventually hurt your program. We're on the cusp of being a great FCS program for football, but I don't think our fan base or donor base is there yet .. maybe if we had a new AD, we would be moving further/faster on this front .. or maybe our board of regents like AD Lyons conservative fiscal approach.

It just seems like were close to being great FCS program, but not quite ready from donor and fan support perspective. And probably don't have the right AD to get us to next level. But an IPF would be a logically next bigv step in right direction to making us a great FCS program .. that an OC who can say "no" to Spack. Nt only for OTAs for current players, but future players in recruiting warm weather recruits.

 

[Jon99]

I think it's a slippery slope to assume students should pay to do big things for the football program. That should come from people with means who want to and can afford to support thru big donations .. alumni, community, big businesses, etc. This is where AD Lyons has fallen short .. Ive heard stories about things he's done to turn off the donor base .. promises not kept stuff. In the end, you have to want to and know how to ASK FOR MONEY, and know the value of keeping your promises.

Well they must be doing something right, the athletic budget has gone from $17M to $27M from 2010-2017, and I know you hate the comparison, but NIU went from $24M to $25M in the same time span.. my guess for thus year it will be north of $30M which puts us bear the top of the FCS schools, JMU and Delaware the only schools that are far ahead of us.

If our plan is to go to FBS as some point, our budget is in the ballpark were it should be, which is ahead of some MAC and Sun Belt teams..

But I think we spread it thinner across all sports teams than most, certainly way moreso than NIU ... with football only getting what it needs to keep us barely competitive in the MVFC .. emphasis on barely. Case in point, we couldn't afford to buy our way out of the STX game last year and no one was more relieved to see us go 6-5 (incl STX win) than AD Lyons all but eliminating our chance of playoff bid in a year three 6-4 teams got bids.

As for NIU, as you well know, they put all their eggs in football basket .. so they aren't even a good comparison. But put aside NIU, I'm guessing we are still above the average in our % splits of football/basketball vs all other sports budgeting. Which I don't necessarily object to being slightly above average. I just wish Lyons was stronger in fund raising for the 2 biggest sports ... business is business, and like any program, you do have to keep up with the Jones's or ir will eventually hurt your program. We're on the cusp of being a great FCS program for football, but I don't think our fan base or donor base is there yet .. maybe if we had a new AD, we would be moving further/faster on this front .. or maybe our board of regents like AD Lyons conservative fiscal approach.

It just seems like were close to being great FCS program, but not quite ready from donor and fan support perspective. And probably don't have the right AD to get us to next level. But an IPF would be a logically next bigv step in right direction to making us a great FCS program .. that an OC who can say "no" to Spack. Nt only for OTAs for current players, but future players in recruiting warm weather recruits.

Without question the IPF is a must if we are going to attract talent to compete with the upper level of FCS...

As far as the rest of what you said, it seems like the mentality is what ISU has been built around, to build a quality university that is strong in all areas, and as we see with climbing enrollment while the directionals are seeing big decline, its a method that's paying off... I have long been on the side that feels we needs to make the jump to FBS, as the state university we should be the #2 public football program in the state and to let a frickin directional school make that claim is simply unacceptable.. We put any effort at all into it and we surpass NIU within a few years in football, so why hold back???? The core of MVFC needs to develop a plan to get to that level..

 

[fourthandshort]

Well they must be doing something right, the athletic budget has gone from $17M to $27M from 2010-2017, and I know you hate the comparison, but NIU went from $24M to $25M in the same time span.. my guess for thus year it will be north of $30M which puts us bear the top of the FCS schools, JMU and Delaware the only schools that are far ahead of us.

If our plan is to go to FBS as some point, our budget is in the ballpark were it should be, which is ahead of some MAC and Sun Belt teams..

But I think we spread it thinner across all sports teams than most, certainly way moreso than NIU ... with football only getting what it needs to keep us barely competitive in the MVFC .. emphasis on barely. Case in point, we couldn't afford to buy our way out of the STX game last year and no one was more relieved to see us go 6-5 (incl STX win) than AD Lyons all but eliminating our chance of playoff bid in a year three 6-4 teams got bids.

As for NIU, as you well know, they put all their eggs in football basket .. so they aren't even a good comparison. But put aside NIU, I'm guessing we are still above the average in our % splits of football/basketball vs all other sports budgeting. Which I don't necessarily object to being slightly above average. I just wish Lyons was stronger in fund raising for the 2 biggest sports ... business is business, and like any program, you do have to keep up with the Jones's or ir will eventually hurt your program. We're on the cusp of being a great FCS program for football, but I don't think our fan base or donor base is there yet .. maybe if we had a new AD, we would be moving further/faster on this front .. or maybe our board of regents like AD Lyons conservative fiscal approach.

It just seems like were close to being great FCS program, but not quite ready from donor and fan support perspective. And probably don't have the right AD to get us to next level. But an IPF would be a logically next bigv step in right direction to making us a great FCS program .. that an OC who can say "no" to Spack. Nt only for OTAs for current players, but future players in recruiting warm weather recruits.

Without question the IPF is a must if we are going to attract talent to compete with the upper level of FCS...

As far as the rest of what you said, it seems like the mentality is what ISU has been built around, to build a quality university that is strong in all areas, and as we see with climbing enrollment while the directionals are seeing big decline, its a method that's paying off... I have long been on the side that feels we needs to make the jump to FBS, as the state university we should be the #2 public football program in the state and to let a frickin directional school make that claim is simply unacceptable.. We put any effort at all into it and we surpass NIU within a few years in football, so why hold back???? The core of MVFC needs to develop a plan to get to that level..

Then I guess our only difference of opinion, is I dont think we are ready to make a jump .. not as things stand today . IPF, new AD who knows how to build a donor base, and a new OC who can say no to Spack .. those 3 things will go a long ways towards making us a great FCS program .. one that can then talk more seriously about making jump to FBS. We're doing a lot of things right and much to be proud of ... but were missing a few kep elements to be a great FCS program year in year out.

 

[Jon99]

But I think we spread it thinner across all sports teams than most, certainly way moreso than NIU ... with football only getting what it needs to keep us barely competitive in the MVFC .. emphasis on barely. Case in point, we couldn't afford to buy our way out of the STX game last year and no one was more relieved to see us go 6-5 (incl STX win) than AD Lyons all but eliminating our chance of playoff bid in a year three 6-4 teams got bids.

As for NIU, as you well know, they put all their eggs in football basket .. so they aren't even a good comparison. But put aside NIU, I'm guessing we are still above the average in our % splits of football/basketball vs all other sports budgeting. Which I don't necessarily object to being slightly above average. I just wish Lyons was stronger in fund raising for the 2 biggest sports ... business is business, and like any program, you do have to keep up with the Jones's or ir will eventually hurt your program. We're on the cusp of being a great FCS program for football, but I don't think our fan base or donor base is there yet .. maybe if we had a new AD, we would be moving further/faster on this front .. or maybe our board of regents like AD Lyons conservative fiscal approach.

It just seems like were close to being great FCS program, but not quite ready from donor and fan support perspective. And probably don't have the right AD to get us to next level. But an IPF would be a logically next bigv step in right direction to making us a great FCS program .. that an OC who can say "no" to Spack. Nt only for OTAs for current players, but future players in recruiting warm weather recruits.

Without question the IPF is a must if we are going to attract talent to compete with the upper level of FCS...

As far as the rest of what you said, it seems like the mentality is what ISU has been built around, to build a quality university that is strong in all areas, and as we see with climbing enrollment while the directionals are seeing big decline, its a method that's paying off... I have long been on the side that feels we needs to make the jump to FBS, as the state university we should be the #2 public football program in the state and to let a frickin directional school make that claim is simply unacceptable.. We put any effort at all into it and we surpass NIU within a few years in football, so why hold back???? The core of MVFC needs to develop a plan to get to that level..

Then I guess our only difference of opinion, is I dont think we are ready to make a jump .. not as things stand today . IPF, new AD who knows how to build a donor base, and a new OC who can say no to Spack .. those 3 things will go a long ways towards making us a great FCS program .. one that can then talk more seriously about making jump to FBS. We're doing a lot of things right and much to be proud of ... but were missing a few kep elements to be a great FCS program year in year out.

I think a 5-7 year time frame and plan is what needs to be put in place now, we can compete with the MAC schools right now... I just don't know how we handle the needs of football and basketball at the same time in the current NCAA landscape.. ISU, NDSU, SDSU and MSU are the 4 schools I see we need to group with, UNI if they show interest, and somehow make the jump together if the NCAA allows it.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

The athletic department should be trying to uncrack the code of how to increase attendance in November games and would-be playoff games. I understand the weather is not the best, and other schools see drops by then, but that is our biggest opportunity area right there.

College football fans almost universally dismiss fcs so why would they attend games in suspect weather. Tv barely covers fcs games, sponsors are sparse, actual game attendance is minuscule and there is no money or prestige associated with fcs (d2 is what 95 percent of college football fans believe fcs is when asked). Good luck getting fans to attend Nov games.

Beyond that for ISU I think it is a bad move to throw money at an indoor facility to compete at the fcs level. Fcs football is an overall losing proposition/huge expense for ISU.

 

[jbird]

On a Redbird "fan" message board, I suspect that this post might not go over well, but I find it aggravating how easily many are softening the standards for fandom and finding excuses for lack of fan support. When Total Red was describing how Marshall fans' support of their I-AA program led to their program enhancement, "The Truth" ignored that part of TR's post and addressed only facilities with another gratuitous shot at Larry Lyons.........who, by the way, I am not endorsing here. Another poster suggested that fans could be excused for not showing up for FCS games in November and that nobody cared about FCS games.

Really??? It sounds to me as though YOU don't care enough to support the 'Birds and so you are justifying your lack of devotion by ascribing it to factors beyond yourself. If u aren't a Redbird fan until we get an IPF or until we complete a stadium horseshoe or move to FBS, then you are confessing that you are not currently a Redbird fan, because none of those things are currently in place. Perhaps you would fit into a new category called "potential, maybe, future Redbird fan" but you are apparently not a Redbird fan today. I'm obviously not referring to the majority of RBF.net posters/readers, but rather to those who make excuses to justify distancing themselves from Hankock Stadium and Redbird Arena. There are those of us for whom it is quite inconvenient to come from out of town for every home basketball and football games, but we've been doing it for many years because we are devoted fans. Maybe someone like "The Truth" would suggest that a true fan would boycott until there was a change in the A.D., but (s)he has never persuaded me of anything beyond her/his dislike for every A.D. In the past 50 years.

Go You Redbirds

 

[Jon99]

The athletic department should be trying to uncrack the code of how to increase attendance in November games and would-be playoff games. I understand the weather is not the best, and other schools see drops by then, but that is our biggest opportunity area right there.

College football fans almost universally dismiss fcs so why would they attend games in suspect weather. Tv barely covers fcs games, sponsors are sparse, actual game attendance is minuscule and there is no money or prestige associated with fcs (d2 is what 95 percent of college football fans believe fcs is when asked). Good luck getting fans to attend Nov games.

Beyond that for ISU I think it is a bad move to throw money at an indoor facility to compete at the fcs level. Fcs football is an overall losing proposition/huge expense for ISU.

The only thing with your comments is that the other night, NIU had about 1000 people in their stands... so not completely an FCS issue as low tier FCS programs face the same thing..

As for the IPF, its a must regardless of what level the football program is.. Remember, its going to help more than just our football program..

 

[Virginia Redbird]

I've never understood why anyone outside of current students (OK and their parents) give a rip about student fees. We all had the choice of paying them or not. There are a lot of schools out there. It's kind of like caring about the Cubs payroll. Why would I? I think the Ricketts family will get by.
JMU apparently has no problem attracting students willing to pay to attend. And they've got some kick ass facilities to show for it. Good for them.

I think it's a slippery slope to assume students should pay to do big things for the football program. That should come from people with means who want to and can afford to support thru big donations .. alumni, community, big businesses, etc. This is where AD Lyons has fallen short .. Ive heard stories about things he's done to turn off the donor base .. promises not kept stuff. In the end, you have to want to and know how to ASK FOR MONEY, and know the value of keeping your promises.

I will just continue on with JMU since it is close and I am a bit familiar with their program and Virginia Universities. Here is the corporate partner page from the JMU website http://jmusports.com/news/2014/6/19/Corp_0619140427.aspx
Here is the corporate partner page from the ISU website https://goredbirds.com/sports/2014/4/28/GEN_corp_partners.aspx
The JMU page goes to great lengths to highlight areas where a corporate partner will benefit from investing in JMU athletics. Several pages of opportunities and statistics. It looks to me like a real marketing and fundraising efforts professionally done. Compare with the ISU page which is really just a paragraph on Learfield and what they do or more accurately...what they are supposed to do. It looked like a promotion for Learfield to me, not ISU athletics. I don't know what else they do to promote ISU athletics and seek investment but if this is the way they go about it then it appears to me they are just saying, "here we are...come and give us money and don't worry about for what." So what is the benefit for a sponsor to dump money into ISU athletics and particularly the football program? Marketing for the football program, ISU sports in general and corporate fundraising has to be aggressive and dynamic. Just comparing the two websites (not saying this is the total picture at all) it would appear to that ISU's efforts are neither aggressive or dynamic but rather boring, passive and self serving (Learfield, the General Manager and the Manager for Business Development are highlighted but nothing about what they have done or what opportunities are available for corporate sponsors. My nephew is Vice President for Corporate Partnerships for the Chicago Bears. You would think getting corporate sponsors for the Bears is easy, right? It was easier last year with a winning team. Not so much the previous years or this year. He has to get out and hustle and convince corporations why they should invest in the Bears.
It looks to me like the Athletic department outlook is along the lines of putting a few blurbs on the website and sit back to wait for the crowds to appear instead of hustling a real campaign to promote Redbird football. I am quite a distance away and it is hard to find any information. That is why I like this board. I find out more about what is going on with the program than I do from all the "official" sites. I rarely go to Goredbirds.com because there is not very much there and it is always posted so late I have already heard it here or from Randy Reinhart. It just looks to me that the marketing for Redbird football and ISU athletics is really weak and boring.
Good luck to the Redbirds today!

 

[Jon99]

JMU is such a tough comparison as they are the exception, along with Delaware... Here are the top FCS athletic department budgets from the public schools... total budget/ subsidy from the school

JMU- $51M/ $41M
Delaware- $44M/$38M
New Hampshire- $32M/$23M
Stony Brook- $32M/$26M
William&Mary- $29M/$15M
North Dakota- $28M/$12M
Illinois State- $28M/$19M

So other than the two outliers who are getting huge sums in the form of student fees and other university subsidies, seems ISU is doing to solid job... when Illinois schools are struggling to get students and we are the exception in that area, do we really want to increase student fees??? The win/win is to increase enrollment by another 3000 students, not only increasing student fees, but also a fan base..

 

[StLRedbird]

On a Redbird "fan" message board, I suspect that this post might not go over well, but I find it aggravating how easily many are softening the standards for fandom and finding excuses for lack of fan support. When Total Red was describing how Marshall fans' support of their I-AA program led to their program enhancement, "The Truth" ignored that part of TR's post and addressed only facilities with another gratuitous shot at Larry Lyons.........who, by the way, I am not endorsing here. Another poster suggested that fans could be excused for not showing up for FCS games in November and that nobody cared about FCS games.

Really??? It sounds to me as though YOU don't care enough to support the 'Birds and so you are justifying your lack of devotion by ascribing it to factors beyond yourself. If u aren't a Redbird fan until we get an IPF or until we complete a stadium horseshoe or move to FBS, then you are confessing that you are not currently a Redbird fan, because none of those things are currently in place. Perhaps you would fit into a new category called "potential, maybe, future Redbird fan" but you are apparently not a Redbird fan today. I'm obviously not referring to the majority of RBF.net posters/readers, but rather to those who make excuses to justify distancing themselves from Hankock Stadium and Redbird Arena. There are those of us for whom it is quite inconvenient to come from out of town for every home basketball and football games, but we've been doing it for many years because we are devoted fans. Maybe someone like "The Truth" would suggest that a true fan would boycott until there was a change in the A.D., but (s)he has never persuaded me of anything beyond her/his dislike for every A.D. In the past 50 years.

Go You Redbirds

:text-+1: Both Bowman and Zenger said some version of this this: I believe ISU should be competing at FBS level, but we lack the facilities and money to make the jump today. We will make the jump to FBS when ISU fans demand it.

Given the lack of donor interest in facilities upgrades, we have only one path to FBS, and that is sustained success on the field ala NDSU and JMU and the others that did it that way before them, Boise St, Appy St, GA Southern, etc. That is, the only way to get to a point where ISU fans are demanding FBS is to win, win, win. FWIW, I would not have blown $7MM on cushy seats in RA while football was waiting on an IPF. JMO.

 

[TIMMY]

I've never understood why anyone outside of current students (OK and their parents) give a rip about student fees. We all had the choice of paying them or not. There are a lot of schools out there. It's kind of like caring about the Cubs payroll. Why would I? I think the Ricketts family will get by.
JMU apparently has no problem attracting students willing to pay to attend. And they've got some kick ass facilities to show for it. Good for them.

I think it's a slippery slope to assume students should pay to do big things for the football program. That should come from people with means who want to and can afford to support thru big donations .. alumni, community, big businesses, etc. This is where AD Lyons has fallen short .. Ive heard stories about things he's done to turn off the donor base .. promises not kept stuff. In the end, you have to want to and know how to ASK FOR MONEY, and know the value of keeping your promises.

You make a great point but that's never worked at ISU and history tells us it never will.
I've heard those Lyons stories and quit frankly I've never been a fan But we've never been able to get over the hump financially and without student fees you may as well fold up the tent. So it comes down to making choices. As a student/parent you can save $2000 a year and go to Illinois Chicago. Decent enough school. Or you can spent a little more and choose greatness!!!

 

[StLRedbird]

I've never understood why anyone outside of current students (OK and their parents) give a rip about student fees. We all had the choice of paying them or not. There are a lot of schools out there. It's kind of like caring about the Cubs payroll. Why would I? I think the Ricketts family will get by.
JMU apparently has no problem attracting students willing to pay to attend. And they've got some kick ass facilities to show for it. Good for them.

I think it's a slippery slope to assume students should pay to do big things for the football program. That should come from people with means who want to and can afford to support thru big donations .. alumni, community, big businesses, etc. This is where AD Lyons has fallen short .. Ive heard stories about things he's done to turn off the donor base .. promises not kept stuff. In the end, you have to want to and know how to ASK FOR MONEY, and know the value of keeping your promises.

You make a great point but that's never worked at ISU and history tells us it never will.
I've heard those Lyons stories and quit frankly I've never been a fan But we've never been able to get over the hump financially and without student fees you may as well fold up the tent. So it comes down to making choices. As a student/parent you can save $2000 a year and go to Illinois Chicago. Decent enough school. Or you can spent a little more and choose greatness!!!

Students have to vote to approve these fees, right? I was one of the yes votes for the fees that paid for RA. The vote was close - 52-48 is my recollection. And the strong support for doing RA was unanimous between the university admins, athletic admins, and Redbird Nation, however you define that. Know what I'm sayin'?

I've always been a win-but-do-it-the-right-way Redbird basketball fan. Anyone that was around in the 70s knows how loosely run our operation was. Wichita's penalties from Smithson woulda been ours had he stayed. Much different future had that happened. Reason I mention it is that I think Spack's a win-the-right-way guy. Sure wish we could figure out a way to get the man an IPF...