FIRE BROCK SPACK

Cheesehead

New member
Joined
Mar 27, 2021
Messages
17
I don't disagree with the YSU game and have said so on this forum. Playing not to lose instead of to win and yes ... I think he has created a hunker-down attitude in this team. Go all out the first half and then hunker down in the second half and play defense hoping to hold them off. I don't think that is a championship mentality.
As far as what the alumni and fans deserve, well I do not see ISU buying out his contract and I think he will be the Head Coach until the contract runs out. I don't think anyone in the Athletic Department cares if the fans are unhappy or not. They will make their decision based on performance as one factor but dollars will reign as the supreme factor I believe. Coach Spack is going nowhere.
They don’t care about all 12 fans lol
 

redbirds2000

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
1,474
Just to follow up, a quick list of former "QB's of the future" or backup QB's who moved on and/or changed positions.

2012 - Adam Pittser, moved to DL
2013 - Trevor Rea, transferred to Dixie St. and played one year
2015 - Hasan Muhammed-Rogers, transferred to DII Lincoln U, and played safety
2015 - DeMarco Washington, moved to LB; Koty Thelen, played as PK holder
2016 - Tristan Smith, transferred to DII Southern Arkansas; Malachi Broadnax, moved to DB then transferred to DII Mo.Southern
2016 - Jacob Donohue, gone but ???
2017 - Conor Joyce, transferred to DIII North Central
2017 - Trenton Hatfield, transferred to Ball State, playing safety
2019 - Jack Baltz, transferred to JC but not playing now?; Britton Morris, transferred to DIII UW-Platteville, but not playing??

And of course Bryce Jefferson, who transferred to DII U of Indianapolis, but I don't see on the roster this year. Oh, and I left Cameron Meredith off too, obviously moved to WR and had some success. ;)

These years aren't necessarily the last years they played at ISU but they were on the roster at some point there. Anyway, you get the idea. None of those guys moved on and were developed by anyone else as a QB.
So, what you are saying is, he didn't recruit individuals that were good at playing quarterback?? That's a problem.
 

redbirds2000

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
1,474
I'm curious where Zack goes after the season he's a good quarterback on board to following him later or whatever college he decides to go to
It won't be anywhere good. And he would have to sit a year if he did transfer again.
 

CaliRdBrd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
5,306
I don't disagree with the YSU game and have said so on this forum. Playing not to lose instead of to win and yes ... I think he has created a hunker-down attitude in this team. Go all out the first half and then hunker down in the second half and play defense hoping to hold them off. I don't think that is a championship mentality.
As far as what the alumni and fans deserve, well I do not see ISU buying out his contract and I think he will be the Head Coach until the contract runs out. I don't think anyone in the Athletic Department cares if the fans are unhappy or not. They will make their decision based on performance as one factor but dollars will reign as the supreme factor I believe. Coach Spack is going nowhere.
Contract is through 2025, right?
 

Redbird15

Active member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
227
It won't be anywhere good. And he would have to sit a year if he did transfer again.
Zack is not going anywhere and not sure on rules but think he could transfer as grad transfer. But like you said It won't be anywhere good.....
 

Chi-bird

Active member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
1,861
This team this year has been about as successful/competitive as was expected of them (by most). A win this Saturday on senior day would be a nice way to send out the seniors with a win and to end on a positive note. I think we take a pretty big step forward next season.
 

crazzymark

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
1,704
Won't be surprised to see 8 returning starters transfer out to FBS teams so the play after the regular season ends. Many 6-5 or 5-6 ,4-7 teams play somewhere in the bowl season.
 

fourthandshort

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
8,952
Just copying my post from SDSU thread ... reacting to that game as example of why we struggle for consistency and our pass game.

Obviously our roster was too thin to absorb a few injuries to #1s on offense. But my point is we would be going to final 8 more than 4 times in 12 years if we could get some amount of consistency and depth ... not greatness, just pretty goodness ... at the QB position. Some here thinking our #1s have been better overall than I give Spack credit for ... that is debatable, though I maintain my point there regard no HS QB recruit has ever worked out under Spack. But i don't there is any debating we've never had a #2 ready to come in and be ready. What always happens is we are forced to shut down most of the pass play book and be strictly a game manager.

This whole don't let the QB or pass game lose the game for us is THE problem IMO. This year it manifested itself in 2 obvious ways:
  • once again, no #2 QB
  • our 2nd half offensive stats vs 1st half offensive stats
Regarding the latter, it is no coincidence we have been in every game this year at half time .. even Wisconsin. Then either gone conservative to play a tight game and win some or get blown out.
  • Wisconsin was 17-0 at half .. but they needed a 100 yd pick 6 return, then a 94 run after getting stuffed in backfield for 14 of those 17 points. We dominated them the 1st qtr.
  • NDSU was just 10-7 at half time playing without Wright
  • SDSU was just 14-7 at half time playing without Annexstad
  • ISUb we were up 20-7, but it wasn't even that close .. 1st downs were about 20 to 4.. But we again shut it down 2nd half and nearly lost.
  • YSU was close, but we had control of the game. Playing conservative game them a chance to win .. and they did.
Playing not to lose does not work if you want to be a very good team consistently. It helps you win games in isolated situations. But it builds a culture of playing not to lose. I think this philosophy is most manifested in our QB room and pass game. I think it is what took a very promising 2016 Kolbe and made him worse .. and he was are only true HS QB recruit who turned into a starter and had a good season ... but just one good season.

Give OC Peterson the keys to the QB Room and Pass Game. Love what Spack can do with restof roster. Even love how Spack gets his teams ready to play against good teams most of the time .. until 2nd half, that is. But the QB room is Spack's weakness. AD needs to get involved and finesse this.
 

fourthandshort

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
8,952
No offense crazzy, but your "sources" don't have the best track record of being right.
Crazzy has confounded us all many many times with his banter and predictions .. to say the least.

But I will always recall the one time he was dead on right .. you know, the proverbial broken clock thing .. but he did predict James Robinson would be a stud. I figured he could be a good one but needed to lose some of the HS weight and turn it into college weight. Then he got hurt and I had my doubts, even while seeing his upside. But I never would have guessed during his treu FR season coming out of a Class 4a (of 8a) HS, that he would become as good as he did. Crazzy went all in and was right .. this one time.

Crazzy ... time to reset your broken clock and find us another stud .... youre overdue and we need one !!!!
 

MadBird

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2017
Messages
4,036
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
Had to post this story from the Sioux Falls Argus Leader. In the vein of Wisconsin's firing of Paul Chryst, DII University of Sioux Falls fired their coach, Jon Anderson, who was 40-17 over five seasons, with two playoff appearances. Never finished worse than 7-4. High bar.

 

Total Red

Well-known member
Staff member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
2,801
Location
One mile west of Hancock
This whole don't let the QB or pass game lose the game for us is THE problem IMO.


Give OC Peterson the keys to the QB Room and Pass Game. Love what Spack can do with restof roster. Even love how Spack gets his teams ready to play against good teams most of the time .. until 2nd half, that is. But the QB room is Spack's weakness. AD needs to get involved and finesse this.
With a few exceptions the conservative offense has been given us the best chance to win. If you have QB's like Jefferson, Baltz and Rittenhouse the solution isn't to air it out. You have to have the personnel to do that and we don't. The YSU game could easily have gone from close to non-competitive if Rittenhouse was asked to do too much under adverse conditions. 19-17 could have turned to 33-17 in a hurry. Maybe some of you guys watch the talented QB's in the SEC and the PAC-12 with their wide-open offenses that light up the scoreboard and naturally you want that here, but you have to have the players to do it. If we listen to you, we're going to throw a bunch of INT's and take our defense out of the game. When it's over you'll circle back to the same place that Coach Spack isn't recruiting the QB position well enough, but the difference is that we might not be playing for a winning season in the final game because we took ourselves out of games that could have been won with defense and conservative field position offense.

I also disagree that the AD needs to intervene and see that Petersen is given greater control of QB coaching and recruiting. It was Coach Spack that recruited Zack Annexstad from Minnesota. Petersen was hired shortly after Annexstad committed. And I don't recall all the details of the recruitment of Tre Roberson, but I think Coach Spack led that effort as well.
Some fans say Coach Spack can't coach offense and he just got lucky with Roberson. Well when did Nick Saban's teams ever score a lot of points without talent on offense? That's true of every coach. Great players make smart coaches. Some of our fans mistakenly believed that OC Beathard had a background with the Option offense. Not so. Prior to Illinois State Beathard primarily coached pocket passers. But Spack and Beathard weren't stupid. They knew what they had with Roberson and Coprich in the same backfield, and they boned up on the Option. Roberson also had a good arm making the offense all the more effective.
So Coach Spack has hit the jackpot before at the QB position and he could do it again, but like any gambler you have to weigh your losses against your wins. There have been too many misses at the QB position. It's normal for certain percentage of QBs to drift off to other positions or other programs but our attrition rate has been too high. It has forced us to play conservatively. Coach Spack needs to get hot with the roll of the dice at least one more time and we need to get players healthy. In the meantime - Beat Western.
 

fourthandshort

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
8,952
With a few exceptions the conservative offense has been given us the best chance to win. If you have QB's like Jefferson, Baltz and Rittenhouse the solution isn't to air it out. You have to have the personnel to do that and we don't. The YSU game could easily have gone from close to non-competitive if Rittenhouse was asked to do too much under adverse conditions. 19-17 could have turned to 33-17 in a hurry. Maybe some of you guys watch the talented QB's in the SEC and the PAC-12 with their wide-open offenses that light up the scoreboard and naturally you want that here, but you have to have the players to do it. If we listen to you, we're going to throw a bunch of INT's and take our defense out of the game. When it's over you'll circle back to the same place that Coach Spack isn't recruiting the QB position well enough, but the difference is that we might not be playing for a winning season in the final game because we took ourselves out of games that could have been won with defense and conservative field position offense.

I also disagree that the AD needs to intervene and see that Petersen is given greater control of QB coaching and recruiting. It was Coach Spack that recruited Zack Annexstad from Minnesota. Petersen was hired shortly after Annexstad committed. And I don't recall all the details of the recruitment of Tre Roberson, but I think Coach Spack led that effort as well.
Some fans say Coach Spack can't coach offense and he just got lucky with Roberson. Well when did Nick Saban's teams ever score a lot of points without talent on offense? That's true of every coach. Great players make smart coaches. Some of our fans mistakenly believed that OC Beathard had a background with the Option offense. Not so. Prior to Illinois State Beathard primarily coached pocket passers. But Spack and Beathard weren't stupid. They knew what they had with Roberson and Coprich in the same backfield, and they boned up on the Option. Roberson also had a good arm making the offense all the more effective.
So Coach Spack has hit the jackpot before at the QB position and he could do it again, but like any gambler you have to weigh your losses against your wins. There have been too many misses at the QB position. It's normal for certain percentage of QBs to drift off to other positions or other programs but our attrition rate has been too high. It has forced us to play conservatively. Coach Spack needs to get hot with the roll of the dice at least one more time and we need to get players healthy. In the meantime - Beat Western.

TR .. While I would absolutely agree we have to go conservative with inexperienced or weak back ups. But that is my broader point .. we aren't good at recruiting and developing QBs. And we arent going to get a decent back up from transfer portal with our reputation. And thats the further issue ... this becomes self-perpetuating by virtue of HS coaches/scouting services knowing and talking to HS QBs.

It isn't a coincidence that we haven't had a solid or promising HS QB or #2 QB ever step in ready to play. Or if not ready immediately, even turned into a good QB in all of Spack's years .. except Kolbe for one season. And I was one of Kolbe's biggest fans .. even to point I believed Spack-Dickens made him worse after 2016 .. he just never looked the same throwing after the 2016 season. I believe they had him looking over his shoulder more and more as time past.

I'll repeat a quote of OC Dickens on a play in 2016 after an important timeout trying to score once more to protect a small lead mid Q4 I think .. our offense huddled on sideline, called the play, ran back on field, and when Kolbe was at least 20 yards away, Dickens yells to him within easy earshot of the DB already lined up waiting near our sideline .. "Jake, we don't need a pick here". No doubt the DB heard it .. so not only told the DB we were passing, but also planted yet another seed of doubt in Jake's head .. as if Kolbe, who finished with 21 to 7 TD to Pick ratio and was right there in QBR with all the MVFC top QBs (Christion, Stick, Streveler, McQuire, etc) doesn't know we don't need a pick late in a close game. Or god forbid, Dickens doesn't say it in huddle, or even more crazy maybe grabs Kolbe while rest of team runs back on field and privately reminds him to throw it away if there's nothing. Now Dickens did this, not Spack .. but I think it is the culture of how QBs and passing are viewed by Spack, and it of course is trickles/pours down to his coaches .. afterall it is Spacks W-L record, so coaches do what they are told.

Bottom line, our QB depth chart over the years has been abysmal ..Spack is the common denominator through all our OCs, QB coaches, and QBs.

Whatever happened to this RS SO Kolbe ?? He was playing right with the rest of the stud MVFC QBs in what may have been the best crop QBs ever for MVFC. 5 of the top 7 were SO, 1 was JR and just 1 was SR. Even McGuire and Harker were considered good but had to carry their offenses and threw a lot to try to win games.

To your point, Kolbe averaged 30 passes per game in 2016 compared to about 24 passes per game for 2014 Roberson .. Spack let him throw, though we had 3 very good WRs too. But all the other SO QBs all continued to flourish in 2017, while Kolbe fell way off. So did Brady Davis by the way in his 2nd season .. he got off to fast start in 2018, then definitely faded down the stretch - yet still finished with 140 QBR mainly because he had 19 to 5 TD to Pick ratio. By 2019, he became a game manager and finished with 9 TD and 9 Picks, and completed barely 50% of his passes .. not unlike Jake going from 21 to 7 in 2016 to 12 to 11 in 2017.

These things are not coincidences IMO. We would be a top 8 program more seasons than not, if we were just pretty good/consistent with our QB position and if Spack would loosen the reins .. they go hand in hand IMO. There is reason we don't find good HS QBs .. IMO they are steered somewhere else .. word gets around easily in recruitment.

You all know I am a Spack fan .. he is the reason we are well respected by the top programs in the bext conference in FCS history. Spack is the reason our defenses are alomst alwasy good to great. He is the reason run game is pretty good to great most seasons. But ... he is also the reason we've never had a HS QB or #2 work out for us.

2016 MVFC QBR

1668627892951.png
2017 MVFC QBR

1668628566399.png

2014 MVFC QBR

1668628354320.png
 
Last edited:

Redbird28

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
1,231
I am not advocating for Spack to be fired at all at this point, but the good will he has built up over the years is certainly being spent as each season passes where we miss the playoffs.

That said, since Petersen has been brought up I'm going to toss this food for thought out there.

Petersen got fired from Illinois after 1 season for a reason. They had an experienced O Line, a veteran QB, and Chase Brown who ran for 1000+ yards, but still finished 116/130 in Scoring offense, 55th in Rushing offense, 121 in passing offense, and ranking 11th in the B1G in overall points per game at 20.2. They scored less than 20 points in 7 of their 12 games. Essentially the offense is what kept them from going Bowling. There were definite pieces on the offensive side of the ball, and the offense did not perform.

In 6 of our 10 games thus far, we've scored less than 20 ppg. In today's college football world that makes it awfully difficult for our team to meet the expectations of winning that we have for the program.

So, while Petersen is certainly a step up from trying a failed co-coordinator system for a 3rd time I'm still not so sure that he's going to end up being the long term answer at the OC position, and - injuries aside - ultimately his inability to get the most from what he has on the roster coupled with Spack's clear conservative approach with a lead way too early in games will probably be what will continue to hold this program back from becoming what it's truly capable of in the long term.
 

MadBird

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2017
Messages
4,036
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
I am not advocating for Spack to be fired at all at this point, but the good will he has built up over the years is certainly being spent as each season passes where we miss the playoffs.

That said, since Petersen has been brought up I'm going to toss this food for thought out there.

Petersen got fired from Illinois after 1 season for a reason. They had an experienced O Line, a veteran QB, and Chase Brown who ran for 1000+ yards, but still finished 116/130 in Scoring offense, 55th in Rushing offense, 121 in passing offense, and ranking 11th in the B1G in overall points per game at 20.2. They scored less than 20 points in 7 of their 12 games. Essentially the offense is what kept them from going Bowling. There were definite pieces on the offensive side of the ball, and the offense did not perform.

In 6 of our 10 games thus far, we've scored less than 20 ppg. In today's college football world that makes it awfully difficult for our team to meet the expectations of winning that we have for the program.

So, while Petersen is certainly a step up from trying a failed co-coordinator system for a 3rd time I'm still not so sure that he's going to end up being the long term answer at the OC position, and - injurie aside - ultimately his inability to get the most from what he has on the roster coupled with Spack's clear conservative approach with a lead way too early in games will probably be what will continue to hold this program back from becoming what it's truly capable of in the long term.
Well, the stats are what the stats are, but you can look at Petersen's record and he's got plenty of "robust" stats too. Especially good in the early 2000's with Minnesota (and QBs Bryan Cupito and Asad Abdul-Khaliq) including bowl appearances, and late 90's at Marshall. Maybe he forgot his good stuff. I dunno.

One thing to remember, and I have no idea if its relevant or not, but Petersen is NOT the QB coach at ISU, but instead the WR coach, for whatever that's worth. Not that our WR "room" has been busting out all over.

You know, you watch enough of these non-P5 games on TV, the week night MAC games or the MVFC, etc. and you see all these QB's trotted out there from Ohio and Indiana and Michigan and Illinois and California now and then and Iowa, and you just say, come on, where's our guy? Why can't we hit on just one or two of them? Well, I think we have hit on one with Annexstad, but you know what I mean. Shouldn't be so hard. Actually, I'm surprised Waring got passed up, he seemed pretty sharp for a FR last year, good size, good arm.
 

fourthandshort

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
8,952
I am not advocating for Spack to be fired at all at this point, but the good will he has built up over the years is certainly being spent as each season passes where we miss the playoffs.

That said, since Petersen has been brought up I'm going to toss this food for thought out there.

Petersen got fired from Illinois after 1 season for a reason. They had an experienced O Line, a veteran QB, and Chase Brown who ran for 1000+ yards, but still finished 116/130 in Scoring offense, 55th in Rushing offense, 121 in passing offense, and ranking 11th in the B1G in overall points per game at 20.2. They scored less than 20 points in 7 of their 12 games. Essentially the offense is what kept them from going Bowling. There were definite pieces on the offensive side of the ball, and the offense did not perform.

In 6 of our 10 games thus far, we've scored less than 20 ppg. In today's college football world that makes it awfully difficult for our team to meet the expectations of winning that we have for the program.

So, while Petersen is certainly a step up from trying a failed co-coordinator system for a 3rd time I'm still not so sure that he's going to end up being the long term answer at the OC position, and - injuries aside - ultimately his inability to get the most from what he has on the roster coupled with Spack's clear conservative approach with a lead way too early in games will probably be what will continue to hold this program back from becoming what it's truly capable of in the long term.
RB28

Sure, but I did a deeper dive, as I' am prone to do at times :rolleyes: o_O and if you look at who Peterson inherited at QB from the 2020 team. Then add Rutgers QB transfer, who was rated last in Big 10 by 24/7 for the 2020 Rutger season, Peterson's his QB room was pretty bad in 2021 at U of I. Also read Peters, who once showed promise, was in and out of concussion protocols heading into 2021, and they had bad #2 and #3.

Then for 2022 season, Syracuse 5th year QB transfer (DeVito) comes in and becomes a top QB in the Big 10 .. currently a 146 QB rating is #5 but right behind #3, .. 70% completion rate is #1, 15 TDs to 3 picks. His Pick to Pass Rate is about 1 pick per 95 passes.

So U of I QB position went from last in 2020, with no upgrades for 2021, and U of I now has top quartile level QB in 2022. So Peterson had nothing to work in 2021. Not to mention, the defense went from last in 2020 to #6 in 2021, to #2 in 2022 .. so offense is on the field a lot more in 2022. So lot going well for 2022 U of I team compared to 2020 team .. though slipping of last couple games.

2020 U of I QB stats inherited by Peterson, plus a bad Rutgers transfer Sitkowski who's only year starting ar Rutgers was 2018, ended with 4 TDs and 18 picks .. granted Rutgers was horrible in 2018.

#PlayerGPRatingCOMPATTINT%YDSTDLongAVG/G
18Peters, Brandon5106.173980048.75 %42932885.80
1Williams, Isaiah6108.272663241.27 %39344665.50

 
Last edited:
Top Bottom