at Wisconsin

[CaliRdBrd]

We have numerous posts about your thoughts re: HCDM. It hasn't changed, we know exactly where you stand. Move along, nothing new here.

Am I Clear?

Yeah, my stance is that I’ll support a winning program and not a program with a below average coach, hasn’t been to the NCAA in forever, and has a fan base that gets a stiffy over close losses.
That was an exciting game, but I’ll bring you back to earth here for a second …

It was Covid affected
UW was clearly looking ahead to Purdue

Bottom line…it was a loss and we now sit at 8-6 with no impressive victories and a handful of losses to garbage teams.

Hurray for mediocrity!!!

 

[Aggie]

Hate to bring this up but with new transfer rules ISU needs to win this year. Everyone is a free agent every year, so “if we just stay together next year will be great” is probably a thing of the past. As noted in this thread several ISU players auditioned very well for a “step up” next year during the Wisconsin game.
Not wanting to be a downer but the rules have changed and every year from now on at every level is a “re-building” year. ISU men’s BB looks like it could have a chance at a run this year, so we better hope we run well. Only thing guaranteed next year is that there will be changes for everyone. Whether we like the new transfer rules or not, players are going to move.

 

[Redbirdfan06]

Couple thoughts after many others, minor nitpicking I spose you'd say:

DMills mentions "playing in front of 15K" -- there were NOT 15K at the Kohl last night, I would guess maybe 7-8K at the most?, not that that's chopped liver. Also very few students and no pep band or rah-rahs. And if it weren't for the Indiana game being postponed, it wouldn't have been on the BTN either.

Wisconsin also had two fairly significant backcourt guys out last night, JR transfer from Wake Forest Jacohbi Neath and FR Lorne Bowman, plus SO forward Ben Carlson. Neath avgs. 13 minutes per game and 3.2 pts., Bowman 12 mpg and 4 ppg, and Carlson 12 mpg and 2 ppg. Those are their first two backcourt subs. Carlson not a big contributor but still has played in every game and is the first 3-4 off the bench. Did they matter more to UW than Fleming and later Freeman to ISU? Hard to say.

Adunk33 posted a few comments from the Badger board -- not sure how many conclusions can be drawn from that, we have a lot of comments on this board posted by various geniuses (including MadBird) that may or may not be, well not sure what - smart? Right? On target? Whatever, you get my drift. People could quote comments from this board and conclude Coach Dan is the dumbest rube ever or headed for a big payday, bigger payday, with the extension he earned last night, depending on which quotes you use.

It was interesting, during that second half surge, the feeling in the Kohl Center, that uneasy, oh crap here they come feeling, that the home fans were feeling. You know how you can just tell the crowd is nervous, restless? Felt really good to be wearing ISU gear and putting a Big 10+ crowd in that place. Couple breaks here or there, and they could have done it last night.

Neither team has a full box score up on their sites today yet so couldn't look it up, but there were cases in the last 5 minutes of the game where two different guys missed two FT's - Chatman and ?? Maybe not Chatman. Whatever, my point isn't to rag them but just to point out a couple of those "breaks" I mentioned above - there's 4 points left on the floor. Gotta hit those FT's on the road, in the clutch, game on the line.

People are rightly looking ahead, speculating, on how good this team might be next year. But at least vs. a Big 10+ team, size and strength were lacking last night. Chatman had a great game, I take nothing from him, but we got out rebounded, Crowl had 21 and 9 for UW, Wahl 18 and 6, Vogt didn't have stats but had 3 boards in 8 minutes. Schmitt, we need you! Gotta get more strength inside to make the Birds more complete next year.

And as far as Coach Dan is concerned, my opinion is, gotta look at the "body of work" as they say. One game, vs. a team missing 3 of their top 9, well, it's just one game.

But this is a very likeable ISU team, some tough customers, lotsa promise there if they keep their heads together. Play together.

Oh, and one more little thing bugging me - the refs were awful last night, I don't wanna sound like I'm defending them. But that really wasn't a "Big Ten crew" as some have portrayed them. Courtney Green, the black guy, is the only one who's a "regular" Big 10 ref. Ek and Honacki, the two white guys, are "part-time" or "marginal" Big 10 refs, you seen them now and then, but they are mostly lower level DI, or in the case of Honacki DII refs. Not that all refs at lower levels are as "bad" as those two were last night. I'm just disputing that ISU got a "Big 10 hose job" or whatever you wanna call it. A couple of bad refs, who rubbed off on Green in my opinion, did the homer job, but unrelated to their being "Big 10" refs.

I don’t think it’s hard to say. Losing Fleming and freeman hurt isu more. Isu didn’t have depth to begin with and losing two starters who play 20 plus minutes hurt, especially when the other starters were in foul trouble.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

I don’t think it’s hard to say. Losing Fleming and freeman hurt isu more. Isu didn’t have depth to begin with and losing two starters who play 20 plus minutes hurt, especially when the other starters were in foul trouble.

Definitely need Fleming healthy. However, it’s interesting that we played better when Fleming went down and Muller had to come up with an alternate game plan for the balance of the game.
I wonder if it was really Muller’s game plan? I have a hard time believing Muller made that adjustment.

 

[Dmills]

Wisconsin also had two fairly significant backcourt guys out last night, JR transfer from Wake Forest Jacohbi Neath and FR Lorne Bowman, plus SO forward Ben Carlson. Neath avgs. 13 minutes per game and 3.2 pts., Bowman 12 mpg and 4 ppg, and Carlson 12 mpg and 2 ppg. Those are their first two backcourt subs. Carlson not a big contributor but still has played in every game and is the first 3-4 off the bench. Did they matter more to UW than Fleming and later Freeman to ISU? Hard to say.

I know you're being as objective as possible, which I can appreciate (and you might be the most objective on this current thread). I believe the main point you are making is we were missing guys and they were missing guys, maybe you're merely pointing out for those who don't know. All I am attempting to discredit is the "hard to say" comment.

I believe the loss of Fleming and Freeman was much more significant than a couple of rotation guys for Wisconsin. Fleming and Freeman are our 2 primary ball handlers. They are also 2 of our starters. You don't anticipate losing a guy like Freeman mid-game. This left us with 0 scholarship players who typically play the backcourt on the bench (unless you want to argue Washington). I am sure they did not practice a ton of that scenario. I also would say think about how many minutes we have played where the outcome of the game is in doubt without both Freeman and Fleming. I would guess probably less than 10 minutes all season long. Even when we bring in the "scrubs" we usually leave either Freeman or Fleming in the game to facilitate.

Maybe we win this game with Freeman and/or Fleming, maybe we don't. The biggest takeaway I have from this game, however, is the grit and toughness and ability to adapt when facing adversity. We were down 18 in the second half to a Big 10 team (with their top 6? players) while missing our 2 primary ball handlers and we cut the lead all the way down to one. Then Reeves misses an open shot and fouls out on a questionable off the ball foul (I'd have to see it again). This results in 2 free throws putting us down by 3. Chatman then gets called for an extremely questionable charge (fouling out) when it most likely should have been 2 free throws for the Birds.

The Birds played this game short handed and were one missed shot and a bad foul call from being in a great position to pull this one off. I don't think the guys Wisconsin was missing takes anything away from the effort the guys displayed. I am proud to be a Redbird after yesterday and hope to follow this up with a W on the road at Valpo.

 

[Birdfriend72]

Definitely need Fleming healthy. However, it’s interesting that we played better when Fleming went down and Muller had to come up with an alternate game plan for the balance of the game.
I wonder if it was really Muller’s game plan? I have a hard time believing Muller made that adjustment.

That’s what I was thinking. I was watching Wisconsin run a motion and was like could we ever be disciplined enough to do something other than stand around and chuck 3’s. Hen we should well- we look great. When we don’t it looks really bad. We don’t see to utilize Chatman enough. He should dominate teams in the Valley!

 

[Racine Bird 3813]

Hate to bring this up but with new transfer rules ISU needs to win this year. Everyone is a free agent every year, so “if we just stay together next year will be great” is probably a thing of the past. As noted in this thread several ISU players auditioned very well for a “step up” next year during the Wisconsin game.
Not wanting to be a downer but the rules have changed and every year from now on at every level is a “re-building” year. ISU men’s BB looks like it could have a chance at a run this year, so we better hope we run well. Only thing guaranteed next year is that there will be changes for everyone. Whether we like the new transfer rules or not, players are going to move.

This is spot on. I believe the transfer rules in CBB hurt mid majors like ISU more than power 5 teams.

 

[cubird]

Was unable to watch the first 11 minutes of the game, but did watch today. Birds scored only 9 points in 9 minutes. Impressive finish with 85 in a contested game. Lewis best game of the year playing defense the second half on their stud and driving to the basket. Our bigs did not get as much help, because Lewis spent more time on the perimeter. Watched up until Freeman went down. Appeared to be high ankle sprain as we all know tends to be slow to heal.

Who knows if Reeves jumps to transfer portal after the season. Winning, developing an all around game, playing big minutes certainly adds to his resume. Talent gets noticed even if you play at a non power 5 school ie. Ja Morant.

 

[CB2K]

Lots of good comments and thoughts so no use in repeating the same. This team is showing a lot more potential than I thought they had at the beginning of the year. It's been a long time since we have seen a performance like we saw last night against a ranked B10 opponent on the road.

Jim Benson commented on his twitter page -- The Redbirds fell to 8-6 but can't walk away with anything but positive feelings. A super effort by the Redbirds, one of best I've seen in 15 years on the beat.

I agree -- nice to see the Redbirds show a competitive team on the national stage. Nothing to hang their heads about.

I want to believe in what I am seeing as a very talented Redbird team that keeps getting better and hoping that trust truly converts to wins. I have often thought over the years that if some of our Redbirds wouldn't have bolted for greener pastures and just had some patience then they would have achieved what they were seeking -- a winning team that could very well win the conference, MVC tournament and make the big dance. The transfer portal has increased the restlessness and anxiety of these young men.

Like others have noted, if everyone returned next year after a year of experience playing together and individually and collectively improving then they could be something special. Too many variables for that to play out but it sure would make for a fantastic squad.

 

[Birgs]

This team has some high talent, but lacks depth. 'Tis the cadence of hoops these days. The mission that was executed by HC DM in the second half, and the way his paltry bench sparked up @ an extremely apprehensive environment (and b.s. guys in stripes) was remarkable.

 

[TBS_20]

Don't forget this was the biggest game ISU plays this season. Was like our super bowl. These kids won't be that ready and up for a Tuesday night game vs southern. Sad now that I know they can.

 

[Phantom]

Hate to bring this up but with new transfer rules ISU needs to win this year. Everyone is a free agent every year, so “if we just stay together next year will be great” is probably a thing of the past. As noted in this thread several ISU players auditioned very well for a “step up” next year during the Wisconsin game.
Not wanting to be a downer but the rules have changed and every year from now on at every level is a “re-building” year. ISU men’s BB looks like it could have a chance at a run this year, so we better hope we run well. Only thing guaranteed next year is that there will be changes for everyone. Whether we like the new transfer rules or not, players are going to move.

Pretty much this.

This is the reason why, as a mid-major, I hate the transfer portal. Any and every decent player can just be poached to help a P6 school retool on the fly, which makes it very difficult for most mids and lows to maintain consistency. Big schools can now get in anyone's ear with the promise of national exposure, ESPN 5x a month, competing for national championships, playing to packed arenas everywhere they go, AND now get paid on top of it. If things were like this during Jank's first couple years, we probably never would've kept all those guys.

 

[Adunk33]

Howard is back in the gym and signs are pointing to him being available for Sundays game at Valpo.

 

[redbirdron1]

Phantom - agree with everything you say and yes, it frustrates me.

I chose to lean in to the approach that we too can gain - look, this year we accepted a guy from Tenn. State and another from App. State. They both
have unique skill sets that Muller's roster didn't possess. I'd suppose the young man who rec'd a schollie from a lower level mid major may have been suspect grade wise so was overlooked by the bigger schools - scholar/athlete proves themselves both on the court and in class room at original school and they come to us. Why not?

Again, Rob Johnson may be the guy who sorts these kids out and highlights the pick of the litters to Dan - if so, best we can do under the circumstances
unless a kid simply falls in love with ISU/Staff out of the gate.

 

[DaveBird10]

Howard is back in the gym and signs are pointing to him being available for Sundays game at Valpo.

Will he have to wear a mask? If he's available that's a huge lift.

 

[Redbird Alum 2004]

Any word on Freeman?

 

[Dmills]

Will he have to wear a mask? If he's available that's a huge lift.

He was in the gym last night and this morning getting work done on his own it appeared. Then he went to practice today without a mask, so you'd think he would be fully cleared if it was COVID protocols.

 

[SgtHulka]

Any word on Freeman?

He's out Sunday according to Muller via Benson

 

[ISU86]

He's out Sunday according to Muller via Benson

Disappointing but not surprising

 

[DoubleDeuce]

Disappointing but not surprising

Offense performed well with Tone Bringing the ball up the court. Not saying it's the ideal situation but certainly workable on the offensive end.