at Wisconsin

[CaliRdBrd]

Why don't we let the entire season play out?
There is not going to be a mid-season fire. There are plenty of scenarios that will warrant a dismissal of Dan. There are scenarios that justify keeping him another year. In the meantime, I think most fans and critics would have to admit that they have seen improvement over the last eight games. They have some notable strengths and some glaring areas of opportunities. I am excited and intrigued for the MVC season based on the recent trend of games.

I'm with RedbirdSoxFan and will be in my seat against Loyola on Jan 5th cheering for a Redbird victory. We are even considering going to the Valpo game this Sunday. I am sure there will be disappointing games during conference and ones that make you smile. Hopefully more of the latter. Meanwhile sit back and watch a team that doesn't quit and shoots the ball very well. You might even enjoy it if you let yourself do so.

We can all put our AD caps on when the season ends.

Agreed!!
Until then absolutely no talking about Muller, his coaching, or anything about him.
Any mention of Muller and his lack of coaching ability, or contract, will have you booted from Redbirdfan.net for life.
Am I clear?

 

[Birdfriend72]

Well we made it 7 pages before it turned into a Fire Dan thread. Some of you guys are insufferable

Not saying fire him today. Just saying the Wisconsin game did nothing for me to say let’s keep him on board. I do love the fight in the guys yesterday and if they can keep that up- they have the ability to do great things. Let’s see if we can put together now. If they play that way against Valpo we should win by 20!

 

[Adunk33]

I’ll say this to put a damper on everyone’s mood…..remember that Reeves committed to ISU late his senior year because he was waiting for an offer from Wisconsin and Coach Gard after taking a couple visits. It seemed the entire Wisky staff spent an extra long time with Reeves in that handshake line…he’s got a couple years of eligibility left if he wants em up North.

Another thought on this game... Throughout, it felt like a handful the Birds have had under Muller. The three that come to mind are: @ Louisville (hung tough the whole game and Brown got mauled on a 3pt attempt as time expired), @ Kentucky (lost by 12, UK went 29-46 from FT while the Birds went 8-10), and @ Ole Miss (overtime win, finishing with bare bones. Yarbs, Fayne, Bruninga fouled out. The OT period was played by Evans, Matt Hein, Madison Williams, Ike Gassman, and Tinsley). Very similar feeling as those but for this one, if the Birds just play "okay" the first 5-7 min of both halves, they probably win.

Here's to hoping Fleming is back Sunday and Freeman's injury doesn't keep him out too long. As someone who's injured themselves in a similar fashion and not a division 1 athlete, I was out 6 weeks. Hoping for a speedy recovery for Mark.

I went over to Wisconsin's board to see what they had to say about the game. They were impressed with Reeves, Chatman and Strong. I think Lewis played a hell of a game as well. They felt they got hosed a couple of times, though admitted they got bailed out on Reeves last foule. They were also generally very complimentary of Muller- just to provide an outsiders perspective.

"They are a skilled and athletic team with a lot of quickness. All of their starters are upperclassmen. I was surprised that they were picked to finish so low in their conference…must be the lack of size. They look like a well coached team and Muller could have a bright future."

"That Reeves kid reminds me of a poor man's Latrell Sprewell."

"Third, I think one of the announcers said we recruited Reeves and he was even on campus a couple times but we never offered. Assuming he had the grades, that may go down as an oops. Fourth, a lot of credit to ISU. It’s definitely a different style of ball but they were well coached and they know how to score. I thought their big guys were really good at bullying the ball to the hoop. They’re going to make some noise in the valley I think."

"thought ISU was well coached and played their style well."

"Hot take: Reeves, Strong, and Chatman would all be in UW’s top 6-7 and play between 20-30 minutes per game. Of course, I’ve watched them a total of 40 minutes, but their combo of talent, athleticism, and shooting is clearly far superior to some of UW’s current rotation guys. Some of their losses and 10th place projected finish in the MVS does not compute with the game I just saw. If they had competent size, they’d look more like a middle-of-the-pack B1G team on paper. I don’t know much about Muller, it looks like he started strong at Ill. St. and has really dropped off last few years. If he finishes 10th in the MVC with that team, he should be immediately fired."

"The refs really bailed us out at the end calling some weak ass shit off the ball and taking their best player off the court."

"Mueller’s best years at ISU were when he had an assistant by the name of Dean Oliver."

"Find me another high major that gets absolutely no home court advantage out of whistles against mid majors."

"Going off of Muller’s resume, he doesn’t seem like a guy that will be fired. As a player he was conference freshman of the year and was outstanding player of the tourney as a senior when they won it. As a coach he was coach of the year as a conference champion in 2017. He had a run of six consecutive top five finishes in conference which included four consecutive top threes. His only losing seasons were the last two during the COVID challenges. With the new portal rules, I would not be looking to run off coaches with successful records. It may be tough for him to hang on to a few of those juniors as it is. Could be a case of be careful what you wish for because you just might get it."

"If Johnny goes to the NBA, I would re-recruiting Antonio Reeves. He can do some good stuff."

Buckyville-Illinois State

Not the ball handling aspect

www.tapatalk.com

 

[Birdfriend72]

Not really. It mostly came about by someone basically saying this saved Dan’s job. It didn’t and shouldn’t. It was a great performance but still an L. Let’s see how MVC play goes. Currently in first place and 1-0. Keep rolling and he can earn another year.

Exactly! Everyone was saying beating a bad team by 4 was a win. And now all of a sudden a loss is a win. They are digging deep to try and find positives.

 

[Birdfriend72]

Maybe take the negative “fire Dan” BS energy and put it into the “Support the Redbird Student Athletes” that are giving everything they have on the court. Maybe they like Dan. Maybe they like playing for Dan. Maybe they think Dan is a good coach. Maybe they don’t want Dan fired. Maybe the player’s don’t give a crap about what you think.
I plan on being in Redbird Arena January 5th watching these Redbird players give it all against the Loyola Ramblers. They deserve the support from all Illinois State Redbird Nation. If you don’t want to be a part of that than that is your choice. Get your other “Fire Dan” groupies that love to continuously post your negative crap on here and go watch the Bradley game.

I’m supporting the guys. But- not getting on the extend Dan one more year stuff. I do want to win the Valley Tournament- so if that happens and Dan is here the following year- that’s cool.

 

[TBS_20]

Rooting for someone to have a good game and wanting Dan fired are different things. We can do both. Just because we want Dan fired doesn't mean we don't support. Some beating the Dan drum are donors.

 

[ISU86]

Agreed!!
Until then absolutely no talking about Muller, his coaching, or anything about him.
Any mention of Muller and his lack of coaching ability, or contract, will have you booted from Redbirdfan.net for life.
Am I clear?

We have numerous posts about your thoughts re: HCDM. It hasn't changed, we know exactly where you stand. Move along, nothing new here.

Am I Clear?

 

[Brick]

Not looking past this year but Strong is the only Sr and I think he still has another year? In my opinion if this team continues to improve this year and gets a win or two in STL they might be really good next year assuming everyone stays. Given the chemistry they seem to have I think they might keep it together for another year. It’s probably too much to expect the big dance this year but I like what could come next year. I agree with another poster that we really don’t know what the players think of Dan but they seem to like each
other. There doesn’t seem to be the ego problems we have had in the past. For
Me that is good news. Even Reeves is happy to share the ball. And as last night shows he is really patient.

 

[Yogi]

I dont care who the coach is I back the BIRDS The same people that are complaining now about Dan will be complaining about the new coach if he gets fired. I just want the birds to win Go you redbirds

 

[Dmills]

Heck of a game from the team last night. These are the little things that help recruiting. Is it going to be the sole reason a guy commits to us? Absolutely not, but playing games in front of 15,000 on the Big 10 Network are what a lot of these kids dream of especially here in the Midwest. Going toe to toe with Wisconsin and almost stealing one on their home court is huge. Plus it gives us more selling points than "you can be remembered for bringing us back to the tournament." Kids these days want that exposure and the opportunity to play against the big boys. Hoping for some more quality home and homes in the future similar to Murray State (A-10, MWC, WCC, AAC) as well as buy games against Big 10 teams.

 

[Birdfriend72]

I dont care who the coach is I back the BIRDS The same people that are complaining now about Dan will be complaining about the new coach if he gets fired. I just want the birds to win Go you redbirds

Yeah, College basketball is a business. This isn't the YMCA Rec league. There is a reason the good teams such as Loyola, Creighton, Wichita St etc. are leaving for better opportunities because they know how to handle their business.

 

[DWRedbird]

Last night was the first time all year that I've been excited enough to yell at the TV, and it was fun. We did not get the win, but playing without our 2 PGs for most of the game we made two huge comebacks and had a chance to win the game, and that's not nothing. It will be a good momentum builder for the team, but the coaches need to make sure the energy stays for Valpo.

Some other thoughts:

• We appear to be playing to our strengths for the first time in 10 years, and our guys are responding in a good way.
• Not having Fleming hurt us a lot, I think if we have him last night, we may have won the game
• We still need to do a better job on the defensive boards and boxing out.
• Only having 9 turnovers missing both our PGs was a big win
• This was a well coached game on both sides
• I thought Wisky got the benefit of some tight refereeing at the end of the game.
• If we keep playing at this level we finish top 5 in the Valley. If we come out flat and deflated against Valpo, we'll finish closer to the prediction.

 

[The Beak]

Yeah, College basketball is a business. This isn't the YMCA Rec league. There is a reason the good teams such as Loyola, Creighton, Wichita St etc. are leaving for better opportunities because they know how to handle their business.

Most here are on record as ready to move on from Coach Muller. However, if he CAN turn this ship around, that would be the ideal situation.

And if this team finishes top 2 or 3 this year and either wins a few in the Lou or gets us to the promised land, I think it doubtful the AD sends Muller packing, at least at the end of this year.

 

[TBS_20]

Most here are on record as ready to move on from Coach Muller. However, if he CAN turn this ship around, that would be the ideal situation.

And if this team finishes top 2 or 3 this year and either wins a few in the Lou or gets us to the promised land, I think it doubtful the AD sends Muller packing, at least at the end of this year.

If Dan turns this ship around that's an outstanding job of learning on the job. And, he also better give us the next 3 years at 600k

 

[TIMMY]

One last thing on this thread from me. We seem to be down to just a handful of trolls. Winning helps with that but so does the ignore feature. Quinn in his benevolence has provided a great way to enjoy the board without the crap!

 

[Metamoron]

I live in Fla amongst a bunch of Big 10 people. On the practice tee this morning (sorry to rub it in) an Iowa fan says to me “I saw the best basketball game of the year last night. Your Redbirds have to be one of the best teams in the Valley. How have you already lost 5 games? etc,etc,etc”. I told him we were picked to finish 10th but with a lot of new people on the roster. He was impressed.

Yes some outside perspective is good sometimes. Of course if we lay an egg vs. Valpo, all that goodwill is out the window.

 

[MadBird]

Couple thoughts after many others, minor nitpicking I spose you'd say:

DMills mentions "playing in front of 15K" -- there were NOT 15K at the Kohl last night, I would guess maybe 7-8K at the most?, not that that's chopped liver. Also very few students and no pep band or rah-rahs. And if it weren't for the Indiana game being postponed, it wouldn't have been on the BTN either.

Wisconsin also had two fairly significant backcourt guys out last night, JR transfer from Wake Forest Jacohbi Neath and FR Lorne Bowman, plus SO forward Ben Carlson. Neath avgs. 13 minutes per game and 3.2 pts., Bowman 12 mpg and 4 ppg, and Carlson 12 mpg and 2 ppg. Those are their first two backcourt subs. Carlson not a big contributor but still has played in every game and is the first 3-4 off the bench. Did they matter more to UW than Fleming and later Freeman to ISU? Hard to say.

Adunk33 posted a few comments from the Badger board -- not sure how many conclusions can be drawn from that, we have a lot of comments on this board posted by various geniuses (including MadBird) that may or may not be, well not sure what - smart? Right? On target? Whatever, you get my drift. People could quote comments from this board and conclude Coach Dan is the dumbest rube ever or headed for a big payday, bigger payday, with the extension he earned last night, depending on which quotes you use.

It was interesting, during that second half surge, the feeling in the Kohl Center, that uneasy, oh crap here they come feeling, that the home fans were feeling. You know how you can just tell the crowd is nervous, restless? Felt really good to be wearing ISU gear and putting a Big 10+ crowd in that place. Couple breaks here or there, and they could have done it last night.

Neither team has a full box score up on their sites today yet so couldn't look it up, but there were cases in the last 5 minutes of the game where two different guys missed two FT's - Chatman and ?? Maybe not Chatman. Whatever, my point isn't to rag them but just to point out a couple of those "breaks" I mentioned above - there's 4 points left on the floor. Gotta hit those FT's on the road, in the clutch, game on the line.

People are rightly looking ahead, speculating, on how good this team might be next year. But at least vs. a Big 10+ team, size and strength were lacking last night. Chatman had a great game, I take nothing from him, but we got out rebounded, Crowl had 21 and 9 for UW, Wahl 18 and 6, Vogt didn't have stats but had 3 boards in 8 minutes. Schmitt, we need you! Gotta get more strength inside to make the Birds more complete next year.

And as far as Coach Dan is concerned, my opinion is, gotta look at the "body of work" as they say. One game, vs. a team missing 3 of their top 9, well, it's just one game.

But this is a very likeable ISU team, some tough customers, lotsa promise there if they keep their heads together. Play together.

Oh, and one more little thing bugging me - the refs were awful last night, I don't wanna sound like I'm defending them. But that really wasn't a "Big Ten crew" as some have portrayed them. Courtney Green, the black guy, is the only one who's a "regular" Big 10 ref. Ek and Honacki, the two white guys, are "part-time" or "marginal" Big 10 refs, you seen them now and then, but they are mostly lower level DI, or in the case of Honacki DII refs. Not that all refs at lower levels are as "bad" as those two were last night. I'm just disputing that ISU got a "Big 10 hose job" or whatever you wanna call it. A couple of bad refs, who rubbed off on Green in my opinion, did the homer job, but unrelated to their being "Big 10" refs.

 

[Birdfriend72]

Most here are on record as ready to move on from Coach Muller. However, if he CAN turn this ship around, that would be the ideal situation.

And if this team finishes top 2 or 3 this year and either wins a few in the Lou or gets us to the promised land, I think it doubtful the AD sends Muller packing, at least at the end of this year.

I agree with everything you said. However, we will need to really play like we did last night to hang with Loyola. I was impressed with even our man to man defense last night.

 

[Racine Bird 3813]

I agree that rebounding needs to be improved. Only have 9 turnovers is a big positive, most of those were dead ball turnovers. In a game with approx 70 possessions that is a really good turnover margin. Work on rebounding and defense.

next game- Valpo has 3 Wisconsin transfers- Trevor Anderson, Kobe King, and Joe Hedstrom. Trevor is an average PG, Hedstrom is terrible and doesn’t play much, Kobe is a good player.

 

[Birdfriend72]

Couple thoughts after many others, minor nitpicking I spose you'd say:

DMills mentions "playing in front of 15K" -- there were NOT 15K at the Kohl last night, I would guess maybe 7-8K at the most?, not that that's chopped liver. Also very few students and no pep band or rah-rahs. And if it weren't for the Indiana game being postponed, it wouldn't have been on the BTN either.

Wisconsin also had two fairly significant backcourt guys out last night, JR transfer from Wake Forest Jacohbi Neath and FR Lorne Bowman, plus SO forward Ben Carlson. Neath avgs. 13 minutes per game and 3.2 pts., Bowman 12 mpg and 4 ppg, and Carlson 12 mpg and 2 ppg. Those are their first two backcourt subs. Carlson not a big contributor but still has played in every game and is the first 3-4 off the bench. Did they matter more to UW than Fleming and later Freeman to ISU? Hard to say.

Adunk33 posted a few comments from the Badger board -- not sure how many conclusions can be drawn from that, we have a lot of comments on this board posted by various geniuses (including MadBird) that may or may not be, well not sure what - smart? Right? On target? Whatever, you get my drift. People could quote comments from this board and conclude Coach Dan is the dumbest rube ever or headed for a big payday, bigger payday, with the extension he earned last night, depending on which quotes you use.

It was interesting, during that second half surge, the feeling in the Kohl Center, that uneasy, oh crap here they come feeling, that the home fans were feeling. You know how you can just tell the crowd is nervous, restless? Felt really good to be wearing ISU gear and putting a Big 10+ crowd in that place. Couple breaks here or there, and they could have done it last night.

Neither team has a full box score up on their sites today yet so couldn't look it up, but there were cases in the last 5 minutes of the game where two different guys missed two FT's - Chatman and ?? Maybe not Chatman. Whatever, my point isn't to rag them but just to point out a couple of those "breaks" I mentioned above - there's 4 points left on the floor. Gotta hit those FT's on the road, in the clutch, game on the line.

People are rightly looking ahead, speculating, on how good this team might be next year. But at least vs. a Big 10+ team, size and strength were lacking last night. Chatman had a great game, I take nothing from him, but we got out rebounded, Crowl had 21 and 9 for UW, Wahl 18 and 6, Vogt didn't have stats but had 3 boards in 8 minutes. Schmitt, we need you! Gotta get more strength inside to make the Birds more complete next year.

And as far as Coach Dan is concerned, my opinion is, gotta look at the "body of work" as they say. One game, vs. a team missing 3 of their top 9, well, it's just one game.

But this is a very likeable ISU team, some tough customers, lotsa promise there if they keep their heads together. Play together.

Oh, and one more little thing bugging me - the refs were awful last night, I don't wanna sound like I'm defending them. But that really wasn't a "Big Ten crew" as some have portrayed them. Courtney Green, the black guy, is the only one who's a "regular" Big 10 ref. Ek and Honacki, the two white guys, are "part-time" or "marginal" Big 10 refs, you seen them now and then, but they are mostly lower level DI, or in the case of Honacki DII refs. Not that all refs at lower levels are as "bad" as those two were last night. I'm just disputing that ISU got a "Big 10 hose job" or whatever you wanna call it. A couple of bad refs, who rubbed off on Green in my opinion, did the homer job, but unrelated to their being "Big 10" refs.

I thought the refs were good until the last 4 minutes of the game. When Chatman picked the 4th foul up with 4 minutes to go...I was like why did Dan take him out? It's a situation that he is either going to miss the last two minutes because he fouled out or 2 minutes because he was sitting with 4. Nonetheless- I would have kept him on the floor and he would have probably fouled out sooner. I just felt like we were going to need him at the time if we were to win the game.