at Bradley - 01/25/2023 - 7:00 PM - MVC TV (BSIN/BSKC/BSMW/BSS/BSSE/NBCSCH)

Redbird222

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Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
5,353
And Chatman did not play most of last season (which played a big part in the Redbirds lack of winning). Last year’s team had the same problem as this year’s team, no big down low.
I agree the loss of Chatman really hurt the team last year.

The Birds were 10- 9 with Chatman and starting to play well the last month with him healthy. They definitely were showing some promise. We went to Evansville, the team played poorly offensively and in in a tight game Chatman tears his ACL near the end of the game. We ultimately lose to a miserable team, their record is 10 - 10, and the second leading scorer and leading rebounder is lost for the season. This essentially changes the course of the season to a downhill spiral. We were not going to any post season but .500 or just above it was attainable. After that game, we had no inside game similar to this season (yes Liam showed some flashes like this year but was playing out of position) and the team looked demoralized. I will admit we played Drake well the next game (OT loss that the referees blew 2 non calls against us).

Here are the facts: comparing year over year:

This year we are currently ranked #272 in offensive efficiency with .961 (pts per possession). The last three games have been even worse at .903

Last year we were #134 with a 101.7 offensive efficiency for the entire year (with and without Chatman) and statistically against better competition.

You can draw your own conclusions but there was an offensive system last year and it fit the team fairly well. Everyone likes to bash that system (which was much more warranted 2 and 3 years ago) but last year was improved and had better sets. Did they at times make silly passes or shots ... sure but we had less TOs than this year even with that. This year we have LESS possessions per game and are still averaging 15 turnovers per game. BTW there wasnt one Muller team that avg 15 TO per game his entire tenure. Last year we were efficient from 3 and Chatman provided an inside presence that was missing the two previous years. We only shoot 32.5% from 3 this year which is blah. We only shoot 48.7% from 2 which is poor. Does this mean Pedon's system doesn't work ... probably not given stats at Ohio St. Does his system only work with Big Ten talented players ... I think it can translate to the MVC but we will see.

The 3 best offensive players statisically from 2021-22 left the team. Additionally Lewis was much better offensively last year in a support role within the offense (go look at his shooting % year over year). Four of the six players that stayed did not play prominant roles last year and did we expect that they would make significant contributions this year ... seriously did we?

Pedon's offensive system will probably look much better when he can finds a player (hopefully at least 2) that can also impose himself offensively. It will also look better when we have a guard then is better suited to be a playmaker .... a guard that gets other involved and can take defenders off the dribble. We will have more talent in those needed areas and it will allow current players to play in roles better suited for them (Mal, Kendall, Liam, and even Sissoko)

Let's give Pedon the opportunity to recruit the players he needs/wants for his system and reserve judgment on the system and until he had that appropraite time. He should be able to make those improvements over the next 2 years. It's way too early to say everything is great or he is incompetent. In the meantime I will give him props and the team for engaging better with the fan base, having a better team demeanor, and playing with effort. I will be rooting whole heartedly for them to do their best this year with a dose of reality on the expectations. Depth, increased talent, and having players with experience with the system should help make immediate improvements. Our expectations should be much higher for the next 2 years.
 

dpdoughbird06

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Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
1,015
I came up with 68, so essentially same ballpark. There was also a coaching change at that exact same time (loss at Evansville) that Chatman went out.

My overall point had more to do with Reeves, that even though he is surrounded with a supposedly stronger supporting cast (and is not the number one option), has not put up better numbers.

But, to flush out more statistics:

Muller vs Jones | Overall
W-L: 10-10 (3-4) vs 3-10 (2-9) | 13-20 (5-13)
AVG-O: 78.3 vs 67.8 | 74.2
AVG-D: 76.0 vs 72.8 | 74.7

We should have been winning a lot of games averaging 78 points, yet were only 10-10 under Dan. Again, the offense may have been ugly at times, but that was not the end of the floor that was the issue. It was the ole' defense.

One thing I will give HCDM a tip of the cap to - seemingly more times than not, out of a timeout when we had possession, there was a play run that could produce points - which is not happening this year.
I don’t disagree, but the Muller numbers included some non-con cupcakes and a healthy Chatman, as you said. Jones was not great, but playing in the Valley without a center is a recipe for disaster.
 
P

Popsto4

Guest
I agree the loss of Chatman really hurt the team last year.

The Birds were 10- 9 with Chatman and starting to play well the last month with him healthy. They definitely were showing some promise. We went to Evansville, the team played poorly offensively and in in a tight game Chatman tears his ACL near the end of the game. We ultimately lose to a miserable team, their record is 10 - 10, and the second leading scorer and leading rebounder is lost for the season. This essentially changes the course of the season to a downhill spiral. We were not going to any post season but .500 or just above it was attainable. After that game, we had no inside game similar to this season (yes Liam showed some flashes like this year but was playing out of position) and the team looked demoralized. I will admit we played Drake well the next game (OT loss that the referees blew 2 non calls against us).

Here are the facts: comparing year over year:

This year we are currently ranked #272 in offensive efficiency with .961 (pts per possession). The last three games have been even worse at .903

Last year we were #134 with a 101.7 offensive efficiency for the entire year (with and without Chatman) and statistically against better competition.

You can draw your own conclusions but there was an offensive system last year and it fit the team fairly well. Everyone likes to bash that system (which was much more warranted 2 and 3 years ago) but last year was improved and had better sets. Did they at times make silly passes or shots ... sure but we had less TOs than this year even with that. This year we have LESS possessions per game and are still averaging 15 turnovers per game. BTW there wasnt one Muller team that avg 15 TO per game his entire tenure. Last year we were efficient from 3 and Chatman provided an inside presence that was missing the two previous years. We only shoot 32.5% from 3 this year which is blah. We only shoot 48.7% from 2 which is poor. Does this mean Pedon's system doesn't work ... probably not given stats at Ohio St. Does his system only work with Big Ten talented players ... I think it can translate to the MVC but we will see.

The 3 best offensive players statisically from 2021-22 left the team. Additionally Lewis was much better offensively last year in a support role within the offense (go look at his shooting % year over year). Four of the six players that stayed did not play prominant roles last year and did we expect that they would make significant contributions this year ... seriously did we?

Pedon's offensive system will probably look much better when he can finds a player (hopefully at least 2) that can also impose himself offensively. It will also look better when we have a guard then is better suited to be a playmaker .... a guard that gets other involved and can take defenders off the dribble. We will have more talent in those needed areas and it will allow current players to play in roles better suited for them (Mal, Kendall, Liam, and even Sissoko)

Let's give Pedon the opportunity to recruit the players he needs/wants for his system and reserve judgment on the system and until he had that appropraite time. He should be able to make those improvements over the next 2 years. It's way too early to say everything is great or he is incompetent. In the meantime I will give him props and the team for engaging better with the fan base, having a better team demeanor, and playing with effort. I will be rooting whole heartedly for them to do their best this year with a dose of reality on the expectations. Depth, increased talent, and having players with experience with the system should help make immediate improvements. Our expectations should be much higher for the next 2 years.
If Pedon gets what he know this program need at specific positions then next year can be exceptional. I think the mail was hit on its head by your take and I see the same needs. Any take on the players mentioned for their specific rolls?
 

Reggie1857

Active member
Joined
Jan 26, 2022
Messages
105
Go take that statement to the women's basketball office, look KristenG in the face, and utter it again. Then go to Kyle. Then go to Prez.
It doesn't make much sense to mention it to Coach Gillepsie, she's a coach not an administrator..... but I agree that the A.D. and the new prez should be aware that the way the dept is conducting its business is noticed and it's turning off people in droves. I encourage you to do the same, dinger!
 
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