Valparaiso - 01/21/2023 - 6:00 PM - ESPN3

[dpdoughbird06]

The scheme has nothing to do with it. They get a lot of open looks and looks they want. Scheme has nothing to do with unforced turnovers. Scheme has nothing to do with missed high percentage shots. Talent is the issue.

Birds missed three bunnies at point-blank range on a single possession and went ice cold from the floor in the second half.

Talent sets a higher floor and pushes the ceiling up, as well. This team most of us figured had a .500 Valley ceiling and a low floor given the turnover and new coaching staff getting its bearings.

Last night was a “floor” game from midway through the first half onward. It happens.

We’re not this bad, but the glaring weaknesses were exposed: no shutdown perimeter defender to heat check a scorer, and no answer for Krikke/King inside; even though Krikke didn’t score a ton, he shut down anything we wanted to do inside (on postgame interview Pedon said our post-ups netted zero points).

With the new Arch Madness format, we knew this was a Thursday year pretty quickly, so now let’s root for momentum and progress and keep an eye on potential favorable matchups in STL.

I’d rather not see us play Valpo again until Krikke graduates.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

24 second click issues. No under basket out of bounds play Caught along baseline etc

They’ve regularly done solid out of bounds plays. Pedon’s system is to use the clock and get a good look rather than forcing and being fast. He literally explains this stuff regularly.

 

[DaveBird10]

I looked at the box score this morning and the kids who played the 5 with Liam, Sissoko, Petrakis, Schmitt and Kotov they combined for 4 points and 8 rebounds in 45 minutes. Couple that with the struggles of Kendall and Knight and last night was the floor game. For this team to have hope we need Kendall, Knight or Liam to produce and they didn't last night and nights like last night are hard bc we want to play thru the paint but just don't have the bodies to do it.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

Muller should have been recruiting the classes in Illinois. He should have been in Cole Certa’s living room early on. I watch the kid play in 7th grade and knew he was going to be good. He was shooting lights outs then. We don’t have the luxury of winning a recruiting battle with the past 5 years results. We need to build this program from ground up. I’m hoping Pedon has a gift of developing players and friendships.

Muller didn’t recruit. He was hands off. Pedon visited more IL schools and staffs in under a year than Muller did in a decade. He relied entirely on assistants and put zero effort in to hiring good ones after Ford, Yak, Ward, Oliver. That’s nearly 5 years with zero direction and bottoming out.

 

[Buffett1]

They’ve regularly done solid out of bounds plays. Pedon’s system is to use the clock and get a good look rather than forcing and being fast. He literally explains this stuff regularly.

So I guess Valpro just has so much more talent than us. I don’t care what he explains get a play that produces. Under the basket plays are weak.

 

[Redbirdfan06]

Put them in a position to score. a coach can do something about effort also.
oh yes he can

Lewis missed 4 or 5 point blank shots in last nights game. And none of them were close. He was in position to score and his effort was there. He just missed all of those easy shots badly.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

So I guess Valpro just has so much more talent than us. I don’t care what he explains get a play that produces.

So it’s Pedon’s fault we miss 3 layups in one possession? Pedon’s fault our bigs combine for 4 pts and 8 boards in 40+ mins? Our entire front court outside of Petrakis is Muller.

 

[dpdoughbird06]

I looked at the box score this morning and the kids who played the 5 with Liam, Sissoko, Petrakis, Schmitt and Kotov they combined for 4 points and 8 rebounds in 45 minutes. Couple that with the struggles of Kendall and Knight and last night was the floor game. For this team to have hope we need Kendall, Knight or Liam to produce and they didn't last night and nights like last night are hard bc we want to play thru the paint but just don't have the bodies to do it.

There’s no substitute for a big who stays four years and grows into his frame while also learning the nuance of how to use it effectively. Krikke now reminds me of Seth Tuttle years ago at UNI, or “Pink Shoes” Echenique at Creighton. Shaq Morris at Wichita had the body from Day One, but took some time to learn how use it.

We have never had a big body that had the projection to grow into it and stuck around. Muller ran off Threloff after his first year, and we have not had one since. Jackie Carmichael and Phil Fayne were solid post players, but Jackie was undersized and Phil was too lean to bang with the true fives. Hawkins was the best of both worlds, but he spent half his time on the perimeter.

Here’s hoping Pedon brings in the bodies to allow the Birds to play his way.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

There’s no substitute for a big who stays four years and grows into his frame while also learning the nuance of how to use it effectively. Krikke now reminds me of Seth Tuttle years ago at UNI, or “Pink Shoes” Echenique at Creighton. Shaq Morris at Wichita had the body from Day One, but took some time to learn how use it.

We have never had a big body that had the projection to grow into it and stuck around. Muller ran off Threloff after his first year, and we have not had one since. Jackie Carmichael and Phil Fayne were solid post players, but Jackie was undersized and Phil was too lean to bang with the true fives. Hawkins was the best of both worlds, but he spent half his time on the perimeter.

Here’s hoping Pedon brings in the bodies to allow the Birds to play his way.

Reggie Lynch but he had major character flaws and was a creep. We dodged a major bullet there.

 

[Buffett1]

So it’s Pedon’s fault we miss 3 layups in one possession? Pedon’s fault our bigs combine for 4 pts and 8 boards in 40+ mins? Our entire front court outside of Petrakis is Muller.

So Valpo has more talent to curb stomp us at home. ? . let’s just use the clock…. blah blah blah

 

[BirdGrad2011]

So Valpo has more talent to curb stomp us at home. ? . let’s just use the clock…. blah blah blah

So we are more talented than Belmont and MSU? Sometimes teams just perform. This team has ups and downs. Nature of being a new team under a new coach.

 

[Popsto4]

We have had a bad offense since forever Including this year. If the ball sticks work on this in practice

I’m just more on the side of players making a bad offense. I picture Pedon instructing and working on things that benefit players and the team as a whole

 

[Popsto4]

The scheme has nothing to do with it. They get a lot of open looks and looks they want. Scheme has nothing to do with unforced turnovers. Scheme has nothing to do with missed high percentage shots. Talent is the issue.

Talent is only part of the issue. High Basketball IQ can hide inefficient talent. I don’t like pointing fingers but players play the game not the staff

 

[Buffett1]

So we are more talented than Belmont and MSU? Sometimes teams just perform. This team has ups and downs. Nature of being a new team under a new coach.

More downs And by 20 to Valpo Many facets and not just talent man The end

 

[Popsto4]

Strong screens are set by strong players. It takes time to develop athletes and a culture of toughness.

I disagree. You don’t have to be strong to get in someone’s way. Mentally stronger yes I would say

 

[redbirds2000]

Pedon has spoken on it. He welcomed guys back that bought in. Doesn’t mean they were talented enough just that they bought in to Pedon early. He didn’t want to replace an entire roster. He wanted to establish a culture. He wants to build a winner not a flash in the pan and bolt.

I'll take the "flash in the pan" at this point if it means winning a NCAA game or 2!

 

[CaliRdBrd]

If Pedon can’t get it done by year three, blow up the program and steer any money geared for MBB into moving the football team to FBS.
By “getting it done”, I’m talking about 20+ wins and an appearance in the Valley title game.

 

[dpdoughbird06]

Reggie Lynch but he had major character flaws and was a creep. We dodged a major bullet there.

He bolted after sophomore year, so I didn’t mention him. Middlebrooks had a legit big body and defensive presence, but he washed out.

Muller occasionally tried incorporating a true five, but it never panned out.

 

[Popsto4]

This is an embarrassment against a 3-7 Valpo team getting absolutely throttled at HOME! Boy, Pedon has his work cut out for him. Outside of Burford, Poindexter and Knight geeeeez! I knew this was going to be a rebuilding year, but this may be the worst collection of lost offensive souls I have ever seen. There is literally NO fluidity or plan on offense just players camping out on the three point line. No floor general, no one on the team can protect from turning the ball over and outside of free throw shooting no redeeming factors. How in the hell did we beat Missouri State. I’m sorry, but I am just plain sick of losing!!!!!! 1998 seems like an eternity ago. There is NO REASON a scoop the size of ISU, within a couple of hours of H.S. talent from both Chicago and St. Louis should maintain this level of ineptitude. We are all pulling for you Coach Pedon to statutes out this “Shitshow”of a program, but it can’t happen Sain enough. LONG SUFFERING ‘91 grad who has never missed a Redbird game. Door for the rant, but I cannot stand losing anymore!

Losing never is a good feeling. Remember though all winners lose first. I know I’m new to the program, it’s fans and this message board but even in the programs hay day losing still had to come first. That’s in every aspect of life too. We all need to be fair and realistic in our expectation.

 

[Hamdonger]

They’ve regularly done solid out of bounds plays.

No offense 2011 but we've been HORRIBLE out of timeouts. Maybe "the designed plays" are fine but I seriously question it. I have watched this closely and I bet our scoring rate out of all timeouts is less than 5%. Not exaggerating. And our turnover rate out of TO's is alarming.

It's a by-product of our offensive effectiveness. Which ain't effective. VERY little cohesiveness...once again, 6 assists for the game. Now I like and root for all of our guys and I'm with DP...we're not as bad as the final 30 minutes yesterday...but we're getting close to Feb and Bradley is NOT a good match up for us becase they'll beat the living daylights out of us on the defensive end. We've got no one who can truly break down a defender and the ball doesn't move EFFECTIVELY. This is my conclusion after 20 games.

Maybe we'll pull one off but don't be surprised if we get sloshed in Peoria. Shame on me, but I'm expecting it. I hope I have to eat Hulka's crows.