New Game - New Strategy

[Red Rocker]

For years, I have argued ISU should never accept the mid major tag. Fact is, the NCAA has structured the system such that there are only Power 5s and low majors. There are no such thing as mid-majors now that the portal is in. Historical Mid majors are now the storage room for the Power 5 annual draft known as the portal. Recruiting freshman is a flawed strategy as the good kids won’t stick here. We are wasting our time developing kids - see Reeves and Horn.

Pedon has to go get benchwarmers on Power 5s who want to play everyday. He has to steal kids from low-low majors and hawk the Juco ranks. He has to prove he can out steal talent as the development track is a myth.

Pedon has 2 years to win and probably we should only sign 2 year contracts from now on. He has to bring a whole new squad right now and win or he is toast. I think he is a good hire because his pedigree is that he can recruit. He wins, he is gone in 2 years. He loses, he should be gone in 2 years as the game is about stealing players not developing them. It’s what the NCAA wants. They want Mid majors to have to deal with one and done like the Power 5s. They want the Power 5s to have a larger base to pick from which is us.

Happy Hunting to Ryan. Your window is now. Two years from now is too late. It’s not my timetable, it’s the NCAAs.

 

[DWRedbird]

I disagree that it he gets 2 years. While the portal makes rebuilding a bit faster, 2 years to completely turn a program around is a bit soon. I'd stick with 4 years to see if he's got it. If we are not trending up in 4 years, move on to the next.

 

[Red Rocker]

Personally, I agree 2 years is historically unreasonable but the way that the NCAA is structured, if he isn’t a top 3 MVC team in the first 2 years, the probably that it will happen after that is much lower.

 

[DougSutton]

I fully accept the Mid Major label and from my perspective, if I didn't accept it, I would be living in denial. Of course, I hope that someday we can graduate beyond that but it is something that must be earned. The way that I have always associated the Mid Major label is based on the amount of revenue generated and size of the athletic budget within the University and conference as a whole. By this standard, this isn't about egos or perception of the quality of wins and losses but instead, just the simple and clear numbers that tell the story. The way to be referred to as a Major by this standard is to generate significantly more revenue and perhaps graduate to a more powerful conference, and this is something we must earn over time.

Link: Conference Ranking by Revenue

Link: Illinois State University Athletic Department Revenue and Expenses

As far as coach Pedon, I'm confident that he'll move us in a positive direction and will have more than 2 years to do so because there will be progress made each of the next few years and at the very minimum, that will buy him time. I believe he was a very good hire all things considered. Although there may have been other options that could have been more significant and impactful, we'll never know and since he's now our guy, he has my full support and I'm more than willing to sit back and give him a chance.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

I nominate you and Birgs the lowest IQ posters on this board. Pedon gets 4 years minimum. Dan cratered the program for the last 4 years and Birgs still wishes he was here.

 

[jwa123]

I nominate you and Birgs the lowest IQ posters on this board. Pedon gets 4 years minimum. Dan cratered the program for the last 4 years and Birgs still wishes he was here.

I thought I was the lowest IQ.

 

[redbirds2000]

Drake's program was way worse off than ISU ( 9, 7, 7, 17, 24 wins) and got flipped in two years with two different coaches without the new transfer rules. I agree Pedon will get more than 2 years, BUT I think we should expect results really fast.

 

[Trey_Guidry4three]

For years, I have argued ISU should never accept the mid major tag. Fact is, the NCAA has structured the system such that there are only Power 5s and low majors. There are no such thing as mid-majors now that the portal is in. Historical Mid majors are now the storage room for the Power 5 annual draft known as the portal. Recruiting freshman is a flawed strategy as the good kids won’t stick here. We are wasting our time developing kids - see Reeves and Horn.

Pedon has to go get benchwarmers on Power 5s who want to play everyday. He has to steal kids from low-low majors and hawk the Juco ranks. He has to prove he can out steal talent as the development track is a myth.

Pedon has 2 years to win and probably we should only sign 2 year contracts from now on. He has to bring a whole new squad right now and win or he is toast. I think he is a good hire because his pedigree is that he can recruit. He wins, he is gone in 2 years. He loses, he should be gone in 2 years as the game is about stealing players not developing them. It’s what the NCAA wants. They want Mid majors to have to deal with one and done like the Power 5s. They want the Power 5s to have a larger base to pick from which is us.

Happy Hunting to Ryan. Your window is now. Two years from now is too late. It’s not my timetable, it’s the NCAAs.

In what world do you live in that 2 years is a term for Pedon? I really hope you are not serious!!

Let me ask you this- what cumulative record would you expect in 2 years ??

 

[Red Rocker]

Sounds like I didn’t get my point through to you all. The point is…. there is no such thing as building a mid major program with freshman and hoping that 4-5 years from now they develop into conference champs. Recruiting freshman is a lost cause.

Wake up, good players aren’t staying here more than 2 years. Give Pedon 100 year contract if it makes you feel good, fact is if he can’t win in the first 2 years and attract jucos and/or steal kids from other programs when he is the new hotness, then he won’t be able to steal kids 3 and 4 years from now if he is still losing.

We rarely, if ever will we be able to recruit a freshman good enough to beat a Murray State, Drake, or UNI.

Yea, we can’t hire a coach worth his salt and only give him a 2 year contract, but 2 years from now, you will know if this guy is worth keeping. The point is not about the length of the contract, it is that the formula for success is totally different now and if you don’t realize that, you can sit and hope for something that will never arrive.

The NCAA changed the rules and we have to adapt.

 

[DoubleDeuce]

Interesting thread. I've always thought about a coach adapting to the new NCAA.... but it really does got above and beyond that. It's truly been turned into a swim or sink situation.

 

[Birdfriend72]

Sounds like I didn’t get my point through to you all. The point is…. there is no such thing as building a mid major program with freshman and hoping that 4-5 years from now they develop into conference champs. Recruiting freshman is a lost cause.

Wake up, good players aren’t staying here more than 2 years. Give Pedon 100 year contract if it makes you feel good, fact is if he can’t win in the first 2 years and attract jucos and/or steal kids from other programs when he is the new hotness, then he won’t be able to steal kids 3 and 4 years from now if he is still losing.

We rarely, if ever will we be able to recruit a freshman good enough to beat a Murray State, Drake, or UNI.

Yea, we can’t hire a coach worth his salt and only give him a 2 year contract, but 2 years from now, you will know if this guy is worth keeping. The point is not about the length of the contract, it is that the formula for success is totally different now and if you don’t realize that, you can sit and hope for something that will never arrive.

The NCAA changed the rules and we have to adapt.

You know- my wife and I were listening to a sports talk show on the way to the gulf shores over spring break. The person said that the reason Coach K and Nick Saban are so successful is because they have learned how to adapt to the moment. One and dones (check), 30 second shot clock (check), the transfer portal (check). It’s easy to refuse to do it...but it’s the lay of the land right now- and if you refuse to accept it...you won’t succeed.

 

[ESS]

Pedon has 2 years to win and probably we should only sign 2 year contracts from now on.

You cannot recruit kids to play at a school whose coach does not have some degree of job security.

Opposing coaches would (and do) KILL you on the recruiting trail.

 

[Birdfriend72]

You cannot recruit kids to play at a school whose coach does not have some degree of job security.

Opposing coaches would (and do) KILL you on the recruiting trail.

Pedon has 4-5 years. No coach receives 10 years..unless they are successful!

 

[ILLST25]

Who would have thought we’d be here on March 30 and all of our producers besides Reeves are on track to return? Honestly don’t mind the idea of our guys getting a full offseason under their belts here coming off a year of experience in the valley. I think most of our players could see a great deal of improvement.

 

[DWRedbird]

Pedon has 4-5 years. No coach receives 10 years..unless they are successful!

I think giving them years as fine. Give him a 10 year contract for all I care, but make the buy out reasonable. Make it 10k for every year left on the contract or something. It wasn't the number of years that screwed us with Muller it was the monetary value of the buy out that hamstrung us.

 

[Redbird Alum 2004]

It is definitely going to take a new vision to navigate this. Going after bench P5 guys might be the key. Give them a chance and perhaps they will repay with loyalty. I don't know but it is a crazy world and the NIL money is a factor. We might hate it but it is the world we live in now. Need to find a way to take advantage of it.

 

[Birdfriend72]

I think giving them years as fine. Give him a 10 year contract for all I care, but make the buy out reasonable. Make it 10k for every year left on the contract or something. It wasn't the number of years that screwed us with Muller it was the monetary value of the buy out that hamstrung us.

That's a great point. Make it reasonable for both to walk away.

 

[Localfan]

I think giving them years as fine. Give him a 10 year contract for all I care, but make the buy out reasonable. Make it 10k for every year left on the contract or something. It wasn't the number of years that screwed us with Muller it was the monetary value of the buy out that hamstrung us.

It was a good ol boy deal if I ever saw one

 

[DoubleDeuce]

Who would have thought we’d be here on March 30 and all of our producers besides Reeves are on track to return? Honestly don’t mind the idea of our guys getting a full offseason under their belts here coming off a year of experience in the valley. I think most of our players could see a great deal of improvement.

Guys must be buyin' what Pedon is selling.

 

[jbird]

That's a great point. Make it reasonable for both to walk away.

I can just picture that negotiation session with a coach and his lawyer/agent:

"Here's what we are willing to do for you: You expect $500,000 yearly for 10 years.

How about we add a clause that says we can fire you and pay you only $10,000 for the remaining years on the contract?"