Western Michigan hunting expedition

[Dmills]

Regardless of what you guys want to say about Jefferson and his decision making and play making, the dude has heart and grit. I was at the game very close to the sideline. Not sure what you could see on TV at the end of the game, but he was playing through a lot of pain on the last 2 or 3 drives when he didn't have to and could've easily given up. He has tremendous character and always takes accountability for his mistakes. Yes, I know everyone here wants to see results on the field, but I just wanted to mention this to some of you who may not have been able to see.

 

[redbirdfan04]

Regardless of what you guys want to say about Jefferson and his decision making and play making, the dude has heart and grit. I was at the game very close to the sideline. Not sure what you could see on TV at the end of the game, but he was playing through a lot of pain on the last 2 or 3 drives when he didn't have to and could've easily given up. He has tremendous character and always takes accountability for his mistakes. Yes, I know everyone here wants to see results on the field, but I just wanted to mention this to some of you who may not have been able to see.

We were probably sitting very close to each other. Today was an overall bad day for the redbirds. I can not remember the last time we were destroyed on both sides of the ball like we were today. If he had as much time as the WMU qb we might be talking about a win but that didn't happen. Heart and grit are great in a player but I do not believe they determine wins and loses. I really hope Jefferson and the team are able to figure this out and fast.
By the way for all of you that did go to the game, I couldn't believe they didn't sell beer!

 

[redbirdfan04]

Same ole

Same ole? Our run game the last decade has been amazing.

 

[redbirdfan04]

I believe 5 is the best option for us.
Jefferson keeps plays alive with his legs, I don’t believe Waring can do that. Jefferson can hit the deep ball, I don’t believe Waring can do that. Does Jefferson make bad throws on the run? Yes. You know how you fix that? Find an offensive line that actually wants to keep their QBs jersey clean. I remember when o linemen took it personal that their QB had keep getting up off the turf.
However, if everyone truly thinks Waring is a better QB and can judge talent better than our coaching staff. Maybe we will see some of you at the helm breaking records soon!
I for one am routing for Jefferson to prove a lot of you wrong. I think if the kid had some help he would be able to produce.

I highly doubt anyone here wants Jefferson to struggle but the fact is he has during the opportunities he has had so far. If you were at the game today you would know the oline took the beat down very hard. I thought Bones was going to get ejected in the 4th quarter. We also lost a starter early in the game. That didn't help matters.

 

[redbirds2000]

I believe 5 is the best option for us.
Jefferson keeps plays alive with his legs, I don’t believe Waring can do that. Jefferson can hit the deep ball, I don’t believe Waring can do that. Does Jefferson make bad throws on the run? Yes. You know how you fix that? Find an offensive line that actually wants to keep their QBs jersey clean. I remember when o linemen took it personal that their QB had keep getting up off the turf.
However, if everyone truly thinks Waring is a better QB and can judge talent better than our coaching staff. Maybe we will see some of you at the helm breaking records soon!
I for one am routing for Jefferson to prove a lot of you wrong. I think if the kid had some help he would be able to produce.

I am pulling for Jefferson too. But he has had opportunities and will get plenty more. In 4 weeks, we will know where this team stands. I agree, if the O line plays this bad over the next month, they are the problem and I feel bad for whoever is QB. But the track record of the program is a good/great O line and not so good QB play. Other MVFC programs seem to go out and find solid QBs year in and year out. Many right here in Illinois HSs. Meanwhile, we can't seem to figure out or develop the QB position. The one time it worked? FBS transfer. I had a hard time understanding the 4th quarter. We were not in hurry up offense, so clearly not trying to come back. The starting QB is dinged up (why risk further injury if he is the guy), the O line is getting destroyed, and we can't let Waring take a couple of series. That makes zero sense to me. Why not let him get a feel for live game action? WMU had their 2nd string QB in.

 

[MadBird]

That was a pretty sad showing. 4 first downs for the night. I looked in the record book and they don't list a record for fewest first downs in a game by ISU, but they do show that the fewest first downs ever gained by an opponent is 5 (by Illinois Wesleyan). So I'm gonna guess we were in record setting territory for that stat. They do list "least time of possession" by ISU and the record is 22:24 vs. W.Ky. Yesterday they hit 22:52. Close but no cigar.

The QB always gets special scrutiny, especially when things go south. Jefferson didn't have a good game. But there weren't many holes to run through, and the protection for passing downs wasn't great. Somebody smarter than me is gonna have to tell us if it's talent or scheme or both. Now, somehow someway they got it done vs. Butler, so it's not a total lost cause.

I see EIU lost to Dayton yesterday. That's welcome news, but God forbid we should choke on that one.

Let's not leave the defense out of this, even if the offense was miserable. WMU pretty much did what they wanted, altho they lost two fumbles and punted 4 times. Even tho WMU drove down and scored easily on the opening drive, I thought things didn't look totally bad in the first Q. But the third Q was a lost cause and that was that.

Shake it off, get up off the mat, and start fresh. Only the most optimistic among us would have thought we'd pull one out on the road vs. FBS with this team. 1-1, going to Charleston.

 

[fourthandshort]

Said all along, it would be a very uneven season, especially first half of it. Too many big shoes to fill from 2019 ..
Simple as that.

No need to panic from that perspective.. it willl be a reload and rebuild kind of season. And i would not throw a less mobile true FR into QB position given situation last night.

Agree Jefferson needs to get way better, but that is true at most positions. Also agree he has some real toughness about him ... no choice but to hang in there and be patient. We're preparing this team for 2022 ... every game matters in 2021, but its all for 2022 season.

Lower expectations .. development year.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

I watched the game on TV. Agree the announcers were mediocre but this was not exactly what you would call an exciting game either. No excuse for continually calling Jefferson by the opposing QBs name. Very BUSH LEAGUE there. I thought the game would be relatively close. I was flat wrong. It was worse than the score from where I was sitting. I had questions about the defense after the Butler game and they were not great but they did come up with some turnovers and keep the team in the game while the offense may as well just stayed in Normal and not even made the trip. We would not have noticed much if they did. Jefferson did not play great but the O-line could not handle the Broncos from beginning to end. They went through the pass protection like they were not there and not much room for the RBs. Jefferson extended some drives but that was about all you could say. I agree with some posters here that if Jefferson was hurting at the end of the game why keep him out there? They did not exactly look like they were doing much anyway. Put in a substitute and don't get your starting QB hurt in a lost cause. (Does anyone here think that by quarter 4 this was not a lost cause?) If the O-line is not quality nothing else really matters. I hope they get it together as the season progresses. I posted earlier the Broncos have some good D-line talent and we saw that yesterday. After two games I still don't think we know crap about this Redbird team. Butler was overmatched against ISU and it sure appeared ISU was overmatched against WMU. No idea what to expect from this team next week.

 

[tgate]

I believe 5 is the best option for us.
Jefferson keeps plays alive with his legs, I don’t believe Waring can do that. Jefferson can hit the deep ball, I don’t believe Waring can do that. Does Jefferson make bad throws on the run? Yes. You know how you fix that? Find an offensive line that actually wants to keep their QBs jersey clean. I remember when o linemen took it personal that their QB had keep getting up off the turf.
However, if everyone truly thinks Waring is a better QB and can judge talent better than our coaching staff. Maybe we will see some of you at the helm breaking records soon!
I for one am routing for Jefferson to prove a lot of you wrong. I think if the kid had some help he would be able to produce.

Nobody is a better judge of talent than the coaches. That says something about the qb room.

42% 0TD 1INT vs WMU
47% against BUTLER
49.5% in the spring 3TD 6INT
44% 2019 1TD 3 INT

I believe 5 is the best option for us.
Jefferson keeps plays alive with his legs, I don’t believe Waring can do that. Jefferson can hit the deep ball, I don’t believe Waring can do that. Does Jefferson make bad throws on the run? Yes. You know how you fix that? Find an offensive line that actually wants to keep their QBs jersey clean. I remember when o linemen took it personal that their QB had keep getting up off the turf.
However, if everyone truly thinks Waring is a better QB and can judge talent better than our coaching staff. Maybe we will see some of you at the helm breaking records soon!
I for one am routing for Jefferson to prove a lot of you wrong. I think if the kid had some help he would be able to produce.

 

[Brick]

Ok to preface I a basketball guy. Never played football so not an expert on Xs and Os.

clearly our O line was subpar. Running game didn’t exist and QB didn’t have much time to throw. Is part of that because WMU could keep everyone up close and not be concerned about our passing game even if we had time? I had hoped Jefferson would show improvement over last year. To this point not obvious to me.

considering how much time our D spent on the field I think they played pretty well esp after the first drive. My opinion of course

punting and kicking special teams were excellent. Our defense on punts was really good too.

lots of games left

 

[Total Red]

Running game didn’t exist and QB didn’t have much time to throw. Is part of that because WMU could keep everyone up close and not be concerned about our passing game even if we had time?

That's what I saw. Before the ball was snapped WMU had the advantage. Their safeties were closer helping plug the gaps. Lots of pressure on Jefferson. He showed some real toughness fighting off sacks and he used his feet to avoid the rush a few times but even when he bought some extra time it wasn't enough. Sometimes the receivers were covered, other times the throw was off. The backs ran hard but again the gaps were filled. The jet sweep with Carr was one of the few plays that worked and he needed a wicked cut to find some space. WMU lined up and challenged us to beat their corners 1 on 1. We couldn't. WMU had a vertical threat, we didn't. It would help to have some big, fast guys that are open even when they are covered. Anybody know what happened to 6'5 Micah Jones? We need him to run that vertical up the sideline. Only one catch for Taula? We need to get him the ball moving toward the goal line.

Defensively I didn't think we played too bad after the first drive. WMU must have noticed some things on film because they started the game taking yardage in chunks. I'm still very high on our strong side linebackers - Vandenburgh and Jordan. I also thought our nose tackles Powell and Gomez more than held their own against a very good center. Isbell is also a talent so we have players on defense, but we won't shut down the better offenses in the MAC or the Valley so offense remains the larger concern.

Agreed on punter Bohlken. If not for him it could have been worse.

Either our passing game gets better or we find opponents with corners that are easier to beat. Otherwise long season.

 

[Total Red]

Also utilize Kevin Brown more !

I'll take the hit for that one. I called for more KB in all caps but he has to pick up the blitz if he wants to stay on the field. Can't let your QB down like that.

 

[Total Red]

Said all along, it would be a very uneven season, especially first half of it. Too many big shoes to fill from 2019 ..
Simple as that.

No need to panic from that perspective.. it willl be a reload and rebuild kind of season.

This is a "no spin" zone fourth so I don't like where this is headed. 2021 spring "didn't count" because it wasn't a full season. We were told that we would get healthy and ready for the fall. Now the fall is here and "we're young" and "reloading" with "big shoes to fill from 2019."
When do we become accountable for our record? - 2022? 2023?

I'm not sure about reloading and rebuilding. We didn't perform up to expectations in the trenches yesterday. The O-Line has two 6th year seniors to replace after this season in Anderson and Georgie. The D-Line will lose Powell, Gomez and Simon. That's 5 veteran players in the trenches we could lose and we could lose other players to reasons beyond expiration of eligibility. Will we be young again? And are we on track with the players that do return? Is Jefferson our QB for '22 and '23? Those are weighty questions and answers will need to come at the end of the season.*** There isn't a lot we can do right now, this is our team. ***Maybe some of those answers came before the season. I'll have to go back and read what was written.

 

[MadBird]

That's what I saw. Before the ball was snapped WMU had the advantage. Their safeties were closer helping plug the gaps. Lots of pressure on Jefferson. He showed some real toughness fighting off sacks and he used his feet to avoid the rush a few times but even when he bought some extra time it wasn't enough. Sometimes the receivers were covered, other times the throw was off. The backs ran hard but again the gaps were filled. The jet sweep with Carr was one of the few plays that worked and he needed a wicked cut to find some space. WMU lined up and challenged us to beat their corners 1 on 1. We couldn't. WMU had a vertical threat, we didn't. It would help to have some big, fast guys that are open even when they are covered. Anybody know what happened to 6'5 Micah Jones? We need him to run that vertical up the sideline. Only one catch for Taula? We need to get him the ball moving toward the goal line.

Defensively I didn't think we played too bad after the first drive. WMU must have noticed some things on film because they started the game taking yardage in chunks. I'm still very high on our strong side linebackers - Vandenburgh and Jordan. I also thought our nose tackles Powell and Gomez more than held their own against a very good center. Isbell is also a talent so we have players on defense, but we won't shut down the better offenses in the MAC or the Valley so offense remains the larger concern.

Agreed on punter Bohlken. If not for him it could have been worse.

Either our passing game gets better or we find opponents with corners that are easier to beat. Otherwise long season.

Take out the jet sweep and our anemic rushing total is even worse - 25 yards in 25 carries (including sacks).

Without calling him out by name, I'm wondering what happened to our "game changer" DI WR transfer too. Was he hurt, is that what you meant by "what happened"?

I didn't see much of the second half, but Hickox played in the first half and looked at least okay, if not good. Did he see more time in the second half? Got credit for only 1 tackle. Agree that the interior looked pretty good. And our LB's led the team in tackles, so hard to question the effort there.

I'm tempted to take an unsupported poorly thought out whack at our new young inexperienced co-OC's. But then I think, well, it's only game #2 and game #1 went okay vs. an overmatched opponent, so let's give it another week.

By the way, Butler defeated DIII DePauw yesterday 49-24.

Was thinking Sycamores would be one of our wins, but they gave NU a better game than we did WMU? 12 first downs, 169 yards of offense, 22-35 passing with 9 first downs.

 

[redbirds2000]

This is a "no spin" zone fourth so I don't like where this is headed. 2021 spring "didn't count" because it wasn't a full season. We were told that we would get healthy and ready for the fall. Now the fall is here and "we're young" and "reloading" with "big shoes to fill from 2019."
When do we become accountable for our record? - 2022? 2023?

I'm not sure about reloading and rebuilding. We didn't perform up to expectations in the trenches yesterday. The O-Line has two 6th year seniors to replace after this season in Anderson and Georgie. The D-Line will lose Powell, Gomez and Simon. That's 5 veteran players in the trenches we could lose and we could lose other players to reasons beyond expiration of eligibility. Will we be young again? And are we on track with the players that do return? Is Jefferson our QB for '22 and '23? Those are weighty questions and answers will need to come at the end of the season.*** There isn't a lot we can do right now, this is our team. ***Maybe some of those answers came before the season. I'll have to go back and read what was written.

It's Redbird sports! We always have excuses. Just read the bball board. Too young, adjusting to the speed, adjusting to the size, we aren't healthy, someone transferred, it's cold, it's hot, it's a road game, the students left at halftime, the lights were too dim after the fireworks, the new decal was crooked, we're rebuilding, we're reloading. It's always something with us. Reloading to what?? 2014? That team had 3-4 NFL caliber players. Show me where that level of talent is on this roster? A lot of football left, but this conference is WAY better than it was in 2014 and 2015. More teams, better teams and we do not appear to have kept up with everyone. It's also easy to say there will be improvement the second half of the season when the schedule is easier. Beating SD, WIU, and Indy State should be expected. Well, so should beating SIU and Missouri State, but it looks like they have figured it out. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

I'm tempted to take an unsupported poorly thought out whack at our new young inexperienced co-OC's. But then I think, well, it's only game #2 and game #1 went okay vs. an overmatched opponent, so let's give it another week.

Madbird, I was thinking the same thing yesterday, we didn't seem to be making any adjustments at all on offense. How effective are our Co-Coordinators? Do they have any idea at all what to do? As you said, to be fair we don't have enough game time to really tell. It is too early and ISU was just outclassed yesterday but again, did the offensive game plan account for that? I don't know. Nothing worked offensively yesterday and you have to put some of that on the coaching staff. Lets hope they figure it out by next week.

 

[Redbird15]

Take out the jet sweep and our anemic rushing total is even worse - 25 yards in 25 carries (including sacks).

Without calling him out by name, I'm wondering what happened to our "game changer" DI WR transfer too. Was he hurt, is that what you meant by "what happened"?

I didn't see much of the second half, but Hickox played in the first half and looked at least okay, if not good. Did he see more time in the second half? Got credit for only 1 tackle. Agree that the interior looked pretty good. And our LB's led the team in tackles, so hard to question the effort there.

I'm tempted to take an unsupported poorly thought out whack at our new young inexperienced co-OC's. But then I think, well, it's only game #2 and game #1 went okay vs. an overmatched opponent, so let's give it another week.

By the way, Butler defeated DIII DePauw yesterday 49-24.

Was thinking Sycamores would be one of our wins, but they gave NU a better game than we did WMU? 12 first downs, 169 yards of offense, 22-35 passing with 9 first downs.

Game Changers are proven on the field in games and practice. Does not matter if its 1 rep or 20 reps ! Star ratings , size, height school you play for newspaper hype don't make you a proven commodity !

 

[fourthandshort]

This is a "no spin" zone fourth so I don't like where this is headed. 2021 spring "didn't count" because it wasn't a full season. We were told that we would get healthy and ready for the fall. Now the fall is here and "we're young" and "reloading" with "big shoes to fill from 2019."
When do we become accountable for our record? - 2022? 2023?

I'm not sure about reloading and rebuilding. We didn't perform up to expectations in the trenches yesterday. The O-Line has two 6th year seniors to replace after this season in Anderson and Georgie. The D-Line will lose Powell, Gomez and Simon. That's 5 veteran players in the trenches we could lose and we could lose other players to reasons beyond expiration of eligibility. Will we be young again? And are we on track with the players that do return? Is Jefferson our QB for '22 and '23? Those are weighty questions and answers will need to come at the end of the season.*** There isn't a lot we can do right now, this is our team. ***Maybe some of those answers came before the season. I'll have to go back and read what was written.

Always accountable for record this season. And im not spinning anything.

Im just seeing it for what it is and expressed those concerns many times. Ive said this season is setting up like 2013 for a while. Ive referred to our DL and secondary getting decimated since 2019 season. I thought we would suck early this fall and hopefully find our groove by midseason. And while Im always hopeful things could develop faster than expected. My expectations were always very guarded given what we lost on defense and our chronic difficulties in pass game. I definitely said these things early on several times, but as a fam chose not to keep dwelling on them. Glad to dig up my posts.

And while i still like Jefferson's skill set ... he hasnt proven he can take care of ball at this point.

Anyway, no spin here just resumed being a fan as the constant negativity serves no purpose. I still believe in the program.

 

[Total Red]

I definitely said these things early on several times, but as a fam chose not to keep dwelling on them. Glad to dig up my posts.

I still believe in the program.

No need to dig up posts. I remember things you have written and I can detect the subtle shifts. I believe in the potential of this program as well.

Even though I quoted you that post was a reply to a various segments of the Redbird football community, not just you.

 

[Total Red]

I thought this was interesting. Average yards per play by the Western Michigan offense in their games in 2020 and 2021

2020
Akron - 8.3 yards per play
Toledo - 7.7
C. Mich - 8.4
N. ILL - 6.6
E. Mich -8.0
Ball St. - 5.5

2021
Michigan - 4.5
Illinois St. - 5.6