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Indoor Facility News

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ricohill
Sophomore
Posts: 395
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:16 pm

Only problem with hockey is it is expensive. Illinois did a feasibility study and it showed it was going to cost them around 50 million.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/c ... story.html

In the last 25 years we never finished Redbird Arena, Hancock Stadium Horseshoe, or even get off the ground for an indoor facility. I will long gone before ISU has hockey.

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isuquinndog
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Location: Normal, IL
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Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:29 pm

There is a HOF coach who won 3 cups in 6 years available. :evil: :evil: :evil:
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!

ricohill
Sophomore
Posts: 395
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:29 pm

isuquinndog wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:29 pm
There is a HOF coach who won 3 cups in 6 years available. :evil: :evil: :evil:
Is he going to St. Louis???

TheTruth
Freshman
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:37 pm

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:29 pm

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:59 pm

You make a point but pouring more money into fcs football isn’t going to get the university significantly more positive affect or press. There is limited upside to an fcs program and actually some negative affect of being an fcs too as some will see ISU as a small time school since the fcs football program can be viewed as small time by many (not being fcs).
Of course I make a good point.... that's what I do :)

No sane person that understands the business of college athletics is suggesting that 1-AA football is ever going to do a damn thing for the university. There is a HUGE negative effect of Illinois State competing in 1-AA instead of with its peers, no rational person is disputing that. That doesn't mean they should stop building better facilities because there will come a day when Illinois State has the proper leadership and the more pressure we can put on those in charge now, that's less work that will have to be done when competence is brought to the athletic dept.

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TIMMY
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Location: 1050 W Addison

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:29 pm

As I've said before - Only ISU Basketball can take ISU Football where it needs to go. :-?
Image

CaliRdBrd
Junior
Posts: 650
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:24 pm

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:56 pm

I’m a football-first fan, but the longer this program is mired in mediocrity, (and yes it is mediocre no matter how many people brag about how we’re in the toughest conference) the more I say shit-can football altogether and build a perennial top 25 basketball program.
Honestly, even if we had a perennial powerhouse program (ala NDSU), it’s still FCS and, as much as hate to say this about my alma mater, no one outside of FCS alumni cares about FCS football.
If the goal is to build a solid program with the eventual goal of moving up to FBS. Where would we go? The MAC (barf)?!
Just put a final nail in this coffin and let’s focus on basketball.

bb fan
Junior
Posts: 613
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:44 am

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:09 pm

I have come to the conclusion over the last couple of years that there is little appreciable difference between the MVFC and non-P5 FBS football.

Competition level, financials, exposure for the university. Any ROI benefit you want to look at.

This should be interesting ;) But that is IMHO.

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Redbirdwarrior
Sophomore
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:46 pm

Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:32 pm

bb fan wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:09 pm
I have come to the conclusion over the last couple of years that there is little appreciable difference between the MVFC and non-P5 FBS football.

Competition level, financials, exposure for the university. Any ROI benefit you want to look at.

This should be interesting ;) But that is IMHO.
We share this opinion. There are 120 or so FBS teams and UCF proves that unless you belong to a P5, you are just as invisible as the Missouri St. Bears or the Youngstown St. Penguins.

From day 1, 80 of the 120 are mathematically eliminated from a national title or even a major bowl game. You all sitting here like the New Orleans Bowl against the #3 MAC team is suddenly gonna put ISU on ths map. Why?

WITHOUT GOOGLE, someone tell me who won the Music City Bowl last year. Now someone tell me who won the Sunbelt.

...

...

ISU isn't getting into a P5 for the next 50 years if ever, so why are you guys willing to go all in and spend the insane money it costs to be FBS, but 3rd tier FBS? FCS is = to those 80 teams and is so at a fraction of the price. Give me an FCS title over the Belk Bowl any day of the week.

ISUBU
Freshman
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:33 pm

Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:19 pm

Redbirdwarrior wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:32 pm
bb fan wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:09 pm
I have come to the conclusion over the last couple of years that there is little appreciable difference between the MVFC and non-P5 FBS football.

Competition level, financials, exposure for the university. Any ROI benefit you want to look at.

This should be interesting ;) But that is IMHO.
We share this opinion. There are 120 or so FBS teams and UCF proves that unless you belong to a P5, you are just as invisible as the Missouri St. Bears or the Youngstown St. Penguins.

From day 1, 80 of the 120 are mathematically eliminated from a national title or even a major bowl game. You all sitting here like the New Orleans Bowl against the #3 MAC team is suddenly gonna put ISU on ths map. Why?

WITHOUT GOOGLE, someone tell me who won the Music City Bowl last year. Now someone tell me who won the Sunbelt.

...

...

ISU isn't getting into a P5 for the next 50 years if ever, so why are you guys willing to go all in and spend the insane money it costs to be FBS, but 3rd tier FBS? FCS is = to those 80 teams and is so at a fraction of the price. Give me an FCS title over the Belk Bowl any day of the week.
I actually went to the Music Bowl last year, so I can tell you that Northwestern stopped Kentucky's attempt for a two point conversion for the win with less than a minute left.

Having also been to the FCS championship for ISU's appearance, I can tell you that the tailgating was better in Frisco (with the exception of the UK motorcoach drivers who packed a grill and accessories in the holds of their buses for their own tailgate). But there were at least twice as many people at the Music City Bowl, and the peripheral community events, pep rallies, etc. were better for the bowl game.

I agree that the Power 5 conferences will do everything they can to keep everyone else outside of their party. But their success in hoarding football access is encouraging them to do the same in basketball. There is a reason that the big boys are expanding their basketball conference schedules.....so they don't play midmajors, thus taking away opportunities for MVC quality wins. I think you could double the money the Birds spend on basketball, but you won't be able to double any "return" you'd get.

ChiRedbirdfan
Senior
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:53 am

Redbirdwarrior wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:32 pm
bb fan wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:09 pm
I have come to the conclusion over the last couple of years that there is little appreciable difference between the MVFC and non-P5 FBS football.

Competition level, financials, exposure for the university. Any ROI benefit you want to look at.

This should be interesting ;) But that is IMHO.
We share this opinion. There are 120 or so FBS teams and UCF proves that unless you belong to a P5, you are just as invisible as the Missouri St. Bears or the Youngstown St. Penguins.

From day 1, 80 of the 120 are mathematically eliminated from a national title or even a major bowl game. You all sitting here like the New Orleans Bowl against the #3 MAC team is suddenly gonna put ISU on ths map. Why?

WITHOUT GOOGLE, someone tell me who won the Music City Bowl last year. Now someone tell me who won the Sunbelt.

.

...

ISU isn't getting into a P5 for the next 50 years if ever, so why are you guys willing to go all in and spend the insane money it costs to be FBS, but 3rd tier FBS? FCS is = to those 80 teams and is so at a fraction of the price. Give me an FCS title over the Belk Bowl any day of the week.
agree with some of your sentiments but UCF is bad example. I would take their football program and positioning nationally in a heartbeat. Also you care about an FCS title but you are an anomaly. The fanbase/following of FCS football, especially outside of watching their own team, is insignificant. Stop dumping money into ISU football as there is little to no ROI.

CaliRdBrd
Junior
Posts: 650
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:24 pm

Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:15 am

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:53 am
Redbirdwarrior wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:32 pm
bb fan wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:09 pm
I have come to the conclusion over the last couple of years that there is little appreciable difference between the MVFC and non-P5 FBS football.

Competition level, financials, exposure for the university. Any ROI benefit you want to look at.

This should be interesting ;) But that is IMHO.
We share this opinion. There are 120 or so FBS teams and UCF proves that unless you belong to a P5, you are just as invisible as the Missouri St. Bears or the Youngstown St. Penguins.

From day 1, 80 of the 120 are mathematically eliminated from a national title or even a major bowl game. You all sitting here like the New Orleans Bowl against the #3 MAC team is suddenly gonna put ISU on ths map. Why?

WITHOUT GOOGLE, someone tell me who won the Music City Bowl last year. Now someone tell me who won the Sunbelt.

.

...

ISU isn't getting into a P5 for the next 50 years if ever, so why are you guys willing to go all in and spend the insane money it costs to be FBS, but 3rd tier FBS? FCS is = to those 80 teams and is so at a fraction of the price. Give me an FCS title over the Belk Bowl any day of the week.
agree with some of your sentiments but UCF is bad example. I would take their football program and positioning nationally in a heartbeat. Also you care about an FCS title but you are an anomaly. The fanbase/following of FCS football, especially outside of watching their own team, is insignificant. Stop dumping money into ISU football as there is little to no ROI.
I can’t imagine there is any ROI. It has to be operating at a loss.
Pimp our Redbird Arena. Dump money into the engineering program they’re talking about and offer a degree in basketball in order to attract the best talent in the country all the while building a dominant program that’s second to none.
When I say a degree in basketball, why not? Imagine the recruiting power behind that? It could include credit for playing and also offer classes in nutrition, kinesiology, public relations, finance/money management, etc.
come to Illinois State...we have the best facilities in the country and you can actually major in basketball.

CaliRdBrd
Junior
Posts: 650
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:24 pm

Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:18 am

One more comment...

Unfortunately, but fitting with the wussy society we now live in, and evidenced by the lack of kids interested in football at all levels (high school and below), it’s a dying sport.

Reggie Redbird
Sophomore
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:02 pm

Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:25 am

Redbirdwarrior wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:32 pm
bb fan wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:09 pm
I have come to the conclusion over the last couple of years that there is little appreciable difference between the MVFC and non-P5 FBS football.

Competition level, financials, exposure for the university. Any ROI benefit you want to look at.

This should be interesting ;) But that is IMHO.
We share this opinion. There are 120 or so FBS teams and UCF proves that unless you belong to a P5, you are just as invisible as the Missouri St. Bears or the Youngstown St. Penguins.

From day 1, 80 of the 120 are mathematically eliminated from a national title or even a major bowl game. You all sitting here like the New Orleans Bowl against the #3 MAC team is suddenly gonna put ISU on ths map. Why?

WITHOUT GOOGLE, someone tell me who won the Music City Bowl last year. Now someone tell me who won the Sunbelt.

...

...

ISU isn't getting into a P5 for the next 50 years if ever, so why are you guys willing to go all in and spend the insane money it costs to be FBS, but 3rd tier FBS? FCS is = to those 80 teams and is so at a fraction of the price. Give me an FCS title over the Belk Bowl any day of the week.
The Sun Belt was a tie between Troy and App St. I always watch the opening day of CFB bowl games; the New Mexico Bowl seems to always be on when I work out. Troy won a high-scoring New Orleans Bowl last year, also part of my opening day viewing.

I also watched NW play UK in the Music City Bowl. It was a very exciting game and UK went for 2 and the win but didn't make it. This was also the game where a UK player got the heave-ho after "shoving" an official. There was a huge Twitter storm over it.

I don't believe UCF is invisible. Google UCF football and see how much they're talked about. It would take us a long time and a lot of money to become UCF. UCF is also in a huge television market and should be at the top of most lists if any P5s expand. UCF faces similar challenges to us in getting the non-con games necessary to make the tournament. If they can get those games, as they have in the past and for the future, they'll get a shot.

2019: Stanford, at Pitt, at FAU. Good non-con for them, especially Stanford.
2020: vs North Carolina, at GaTech. Yes, they're ACC schools, but they could really use a boost here with a headliner opponent, whether P5 or not.
2021: at Louisville
2022: vs Louisville, vs GaTech. Another good opportunity to build a solid non-con schedule with another quality opponent.
2024: at North Carolina
2025: vs North Carolina.

Moreso, they've recently played Michigan, Penn State, South Carolina, and Ohio State. If they can get more games like that, it's going to give them a great opportunity to compete for a national title.

What also helps them is USF, Houston, and Cinci can be good wins year in and year out, especially with what USF has in Charlie Strong.

ChiRedbirdfan
Senior
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:16 am

CaliRdBrd wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:18 am
One more comment...

Unfortunately, but fitting with the wussy society we now live in, and evidenced by the lack of kids interested in football at all levels (high school and below), it’s a dying sport.
Wussy society?... when neurologists say playing footballl is bad for the brain most parents are going to rightfully (IMO)not let their children play football. I like watching football but no way were my kids allowed to play football. But to each their own.

Humdinger
Senior
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:04 pm

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:02 am

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:16 am
CaliRdBrd wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:18 am
One more comment...

Unfortunately, but fitting with the wussy society we now live in, and evidenced by the lack of kids interested in football at all levels (high school and below), it’s a dying sport.
Wussy society?... when neurologists say playing footballl is bad for the brain most parents are going to rightfully (IMO)not let their children play football. I like watching football but no way were my kids allowed to play football. But to each their own.

Participation really isn't down very much where I'm from. Matter of fact the JFL leagues are as packed as ever, and Fri night football is a pretty big event around Central IL.

I'm reminded of Timmy comments regarding the safety of the game and teaching a different mechanism for tackling and I agree. Then I see the Reid hit on Rothl last night and I shake my head a bit. Don't believe for a sec he should have been ejected. Digressing...

Humdinger
Senior
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:04 pm

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:04 am

So if we should dump all the cash and fundraising into men's basketball, why are we howling for an indoor facility?? (not saying we shouldn't have one, simply asking for a friend)

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:27 am

The FBS or shut it down completely talk serves no purpose .. it will never happen, nor needs to. By this logic, you could argue to shut down all football at all levels unless it is at the highest level ... right ? That makes no sense to me. Not to mention, we should just shut down all sports and band apparently .. everything except Men's Basketball by that same logic ??

D-II, D-III, NAIA, JUco ... shut em all down ? Then what's the argument at HS level ... IHSA has 8 classes ... do we shut down everything below 6A or something to that effect ?

I don't see FCS as a deadend because it is not FBS .. pretty sure it is just not that dire of a situation. Colleges need to focus on the academics and overall college/campus experience. They want to attract students of all kinds for a variety of reasons, including non-academic reasons ... like sports, music, arts, social clubs, club teams, etc.

Why FCS football in and of itself is viewed as an absolute failure by some makes no sense to me. Aspiring to go FBS makes sense to me .. but if it is not going to happen for whatever reasons, then we have to shut it all down ?? I don't get the argument.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

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Redbirdwarrior
Sophomore
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:46 pm

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:32 am

I don't follow the "just dump all money into basketball" logic at all. ISU just renovated Hancock Stadium within the last few years at a cost of $25,000,000 That's the annual tuition of more than 1600 ISU students.

Don't get me wrong, I do think ISU will be recognized nationally as a basketball school before they are recognized as a football school, but we have to be less black and white than just saying "We are ONLY a football or ONLY a basketball school". There is room for both.

ricohill
Sophomore
Posts: 395
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:47 am

There are several issue with moving up to FBS.

First, Illinois State athletics since Zenger left can't raise any money. It would take real vision and leadership from the University President (nothing against Dietz, but he won't be here when this happens) and the athletic director. I don't think Dietz has any interest in this and our current AD has accomplished just about zero of the projects he wanted since he go here. So you need real change there.

Second, I don't think ISU can support FBS football. They can't draw now for FCS football or D1 basketball. You might get more interest if you bring in a Big Ten team (highly unlikely), but how many more people will show up for a game against Akron?

Third, the visibility of being a low level FBS schools brings you nothing except dept. So many of these FBS schools lose money every year. Your success in basketball is tied to how much money you spend on basketball and there is statistical data to prove that based on budgets of the teams that make the tournament. ISU is near the bottom in spending in the MVC and in the middle nationally.

I'm not in the completely drop football group, but I certainly don't want to sacrifice the resources of basketball for a football program that has had one random run to the FCS championship and not much success before or after.

Now if ISU brought in a dynamic AD and that person cleaned house to bring in real fundraisers, maybe ISU could become an NDSU or SDSU, but we are miles away from even being at their level with fundraising, facilities, and consistent success.

bb fan
Junior
Posts: 613
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:44 am

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:54 am

Good, interesting comments here. A couple of additional observations...

Seems every year, there is that one non P5 outlier. This year it's UCF. Recently, Western Michigan. A number of years ago NIU, which did get to the Orange Bowl, which I thought was pretty cool. These schools have an amazing year, and most likely capable of beating about any P5, but the door is locked to the private playoff party they hold. Everytime, so what's the point? Wednesday evening, I watched a little bit of the Toledo / NIU game. in front of a very sparse, announced crowd of about 5k. So this is the result after going to one major bowl game a few years ago? Which is pretty much the BEST thing that can happen being a non-P5 FBS. And let's not dwell on how NIU is doing overall since the Orange Bowl.

As Reggie said, the cost of being FBS is very high, particularly the cost of the additional schollies. And keep in mind, that many more will have to be added with at least one new Womens sport. It will, without a doubt, cost us way more. And, any of the FBS conferences would mean a huge increase in travel -- and not just for football.

I don't want to see us eliminate football. It won't really help basketball. What would help basketball is going to the freaking NCAA tourney more than once every couple of decades. I don'r think spending more would have had anything to do with it. I like college football. Lots of people do. College football adds a distiguishing element to the university experience. The band. Parents day. Homecoming. It helps build our overall brand. It helps overall enrollment. I think it is an excellent investment. We will do an engineering major regardless. One really has no effect on the other, with the exception that it will bring us better athletes, and engineering majors. Look for an annoucement on the engineering major pretty soon.

Thinking about it, I really don't know that we ever had the chance to be a P5. I know going FBS came very close to happening in the late 90's. Would the MAC have been a stepping stone? Or would we now find ourselves playing Ball State on Wednesday nights in front of a couple thousand fans? And playing our post season basketball tournament in an empty Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland? Who knows.
Last edited by bb fan on Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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